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So, my mother is going through divorce #5 thereby altering family holiday get-togethers in some interesting ways. For one, my house is now the designated home for T-day and Christmas/Hannakuh/Solstice celebrations (and yes, some of celebrate one or more of these) because she's moved out into a much smaller place and just isn't all that interested in putting on the big to do. This is fine by me and I've even been enjoying this passing of the torch as it's given me an excuse to allow my inner Martha Stewart free regin. Sadly, it also means that all holidays must now be split up so that we can spend time with my now ex-step-father whom we all love and for three of my kiddo's is the only grandfather they've ever known. Okay, that can be managed as well. Today was to be spent with mom, aka 'grandma' (though she won't actually let my kids call her that) and my clan of 5 as well as 3 close friends and 2 additional kiddos for a total of 10 people and went a little nuts and bought a 20# turkey. I even found a "kid table", and because this is a brand new thing for my little one's they're actually looking forward to sitting at it! haha
And then 'grandpa' is coming over on Sunday for a reprisal of Thanksgiving dinner.
I woke up this morning feeling festive and looking forward to the day as well as to our tradition of playing charades after dinner. I love coming up with obscure and potentially really embarrassing things for people to act out...it's compensation for the fact that, even when dinner was at mom's, I always ended up preparing most of teh food. (Some of my favorites are, "Tales of the Vulgar Unicorn"- book, and "Blazing Saddles"- movie). IOW, I'm more than happy to prepare all of the food as long as I can witness my close friends and family being absolutely silly in the aftermath. That's fair, right?
Anyway, mom called this morning to see if I needed anything else from the store or any additional serving spoons, etc. Er, at least that's why she said she was calling. A few minutes into the convo she said, "By the way, my new boyfriend will be coming into town later this evening and so I invited him over for coffee, dessert and charades".
silence
mom: "Hello? Are you still there?"
me: "Um, well...I wasn't really prepared for additional guests, mom."
mom: "You said you bought a 20# turkey, plus he's only coming over for dessert and I'm bringing pecan pie, remember?"
me: "Okay mom, look, it's not so much about having enough food- though I do have the table set for exactly 10 people- but it's more that I'm simply not ready to meet this new beau of yours. And honestly, I don't think the kids are ready yet either. It's only been 3 months and I would prefer to meet him over coffee or lunch somewhere before having him join us for a holiday meal".
mom: "I wish I'd known you felt that way so that I wouldn't have invited him".
me: "Well, you could've ASKED. Most people ask before they invite additional guests to someone else's house. It's just the considerate thing to do. But you didn't ask...you just invited him and assumed it would be okay. And to be completely honest, aside from teh fact that I haven't yet digested the fact that you and my step-father, aka 'grandpa' are no longer together, I definitely haven't begun to work through how I feel about you dating someone younger than me with children that you spend more time with than your own grandchildren. I'm not saying I don't want to accept him in your life, but that I'm just not as quick at accepting these things as you'd like me to be".
mom: "Well, if that's how you feel then I don't feel comfortable coming over either".
me: "What? You're joking, right? You called to ask me about serving spoons and now there's an ultimatum involved? If I don't feel comfortable having your new boyfriend over then you're not coming either? Look, I realize you're dating someone 21 years younger than you, but now you're acting as if you're 13 years old! I can't believe you're pulling this passive-aggressive bullshit today. I was really looking forward to a holiday meal without all this fucking drama, mom. At any point in the last few weeks you could've simply asked if it was okay to invite him and I would've said that I'd rather meet him some other time, before or after a big holiday get-together. No drama. But instead you manipulated him into the scene with an ultimatum, and I doubt he'd be any more comfortable knowing this than I am".
mom: silence
Apparently she hung up.
Then she called back and left a message (my hands were elbow deep in a 20# turkey carcass so I couldn't answer...probably a good thing) stating that I am painting her as 'the bad guy' and did I know that my step-father was chatting with women on eharmony.com before they even split up? And how dare I not be accepting of her new boyfriend when she's always been accepting of mine? (not altogether true) And that she was going to invite my twins out for a movie so I could have a little time to myself before everyone arrived, and that she has all these mashed potatoes and this pecan pie and what do I expect her to do with them?
Um...I fail to see how my step father's eharmony shenanigans have anything at all to do with this, first of all. He's not issuing ultimatums or passive-aggressive manipulation tactics to force me or my children to accept a new girlfriend. Fortunately, he's healthier and more mature than that. Thaw was just my mother's way of derailing the topic and making any negative reaction I might have invalid. Secondly, I hadn't painted her as 'the bad guy'...I just had some issues of my very own to work through regarding their divorce and then her going on an on about how wonderful this new guy is and how great his kids are. MY ISSUES, not hers, but I haven't had a fucking chance to try to understand them beyond my initial reactions, which is precisely WHY I didn't bring the subject up with her. I was hoping that by the time she ASKED me to meet this new beau, I'd have a better understanding of these reactions and with any luck be ready to meet him without these jaded feelings.
In any case, I called her back and left a message saying that I think we could at least try to put this issue behind us for today and talk about it later when we've both cooled off, and that it's really important to me that we allow the 8 other people involved have a "Happy Thanksgiving" and that perhaps we, if we stop laying blame on each other for this one day, might also have a "Happy Thanksgiving".
So, I'm posting this here because I feel that I was trying to be authentic and diplomatic which clearly didn't work. So I went for extreme honesty, and probably said a few things that could've been worded more diplomatically, yet here we are..at an impasse of sorts and my joy and excitement over being the hostess-with-the-mostess is pretty much gone. I'm working on it though, which is another reason why I'm posting this. To just get it out and perhaps have some dialogue about it that doesn't end with hanging up on me. I realize I can sometimes be insensitive, but this time I felt the need to protect my children's sensitivities as well...and my youngest one's aren't even fully aware that their grandparents have separated. That's my fault. They've just been going through so much that I was trying to wait til after the holidays to tell them.
Ah. FUCK.
end rant.
-K
And then 'grandpa' is coming over on Sunday for a reprisal of Thanksgiving dinner.
I woke up this morning feeling festive and looking forward to the day as well as to our tradition of playing charades after dinner. I love coming up with obscure and potentially really embarrassing things for people to act out...it's compensation for the fact that, even when dinner was at mom's, I always ended up preparing most of teh food. (Some of my favorites are, "Tales of the Vulgar Unicorn"- book, and "Blazing Saddles"- movie). IOW, I'm more than happy to prepare all of the food as long as I can witness my close friends and family being absolutely silly in the aftermath. That's fair, right?
Anyway, mom called this morning to see if I needed anything else from the store or any additional serving spoons, etc. Er, at least that's why she said she was calling. A few minutes into the convo she said, "By the way, my new boyfriend will be coming into town later this evening and so I invited him over for coffee, dessert and charades".
silence
mom: "Hello? Are you still there?"
me: "Um, well...I wasn't really prepared for additional guests, mom."
mom: "You said you bought a 20# turkey, plus he's only coming over for dessert and I'm bringing pecan pie, remember?"
me: "Okay mom, look, it's not so much about having enough food- though I do have the table set for exactly 10 people- but it's more that I'm simply not ready to meet this new beau of yours. And honestly, I don't think the kids are ready yet either. It's only been 3 months and I would prefer to meet him over coffee or lunch somewhere before having him join us for a holiday meal".
mom: "I wish I'd known you felt that way so that I wouldn't have invited him".
me: "Well, you could've ASKED. Most people ask before they invite additional guests to someone else's house. It's just the considerate thing to do. But you didn't ask...you just invited him and assumed it would be okay. And to be completely honest, aside from teh fact that I haven't yet digested the fact that you and my step-father, aka 'grandpa' are no longer together, I definitely haven't begun to work through how I feel about you dating someone younger than me with children that you spend more time with than your own grandchildren. I'm not saying I don't want to accept him in your life, but that I'm just not as quick at accepting these things as you'd like me to be".
mom: "Well, if that's how you feel then I don't feel comfortable coming over either".
me: "What? You're joking, right? You called to ask me about serving spoons and now there's an ultimatum involved? If I don't feel comfortable having your new boyfriend over then you're not coming either? Look, I realize you're dating someone 21 years younger than you, but now you're acting as if you're 13 years old! I can't believe you're pulling this passive-aggressive bullshit today. I was really looking forward to a holiday meal without all this fucking drama, mom. At any point in the last few weeks you could've simply asked if it was okay to invite him and I would've said that I'd rather meet him some other time, before or after a big holiday get-together. No drama. But instead you manipulated him into the scene with an ultimatum, and I doubt he'd be any more comfortable knowing this than I am".
mom: silence
Apparently she hung up.
Then she called back and left a message (my hands were elbow deep in a 20# turkey carcass so I couldn't answer...probably a good thing) stating that I am painting her as 'the bad guy' and did I know that my step-father was chatting with women on eharmony.com before they even split up? And how dare I not be accepting of her new boyfriend when she's always been accepting of mine? (not altogether true) And that she was going to invite my twins out for a movie so I could have a little time to myself before everyone arrived, and that she has all these mashed potatoes and this pecan pie and what do I expect her to do with them?
Um...I fail to see how my step father's eharmony shenanigans have anything at all to do with this, first of all. He's not issuing ultimatums or passive-aggressive manipulation tactics to force me or my children to accept a new girlfriend. Fortunately, he's healthier and more mature than that. Thaw was just my mother's way of derailing the topic and making any negative reaction I might have invalid. Secondly, I hadn't painted her as 'the bad guy'...I just had some issues of my very own to work through regarding their divorce and then her going on an on about how wonderful this new guy is and how great his kids are. MY ISSUES, not hers, but I haven't had a fucking chance to try to understand them beyond my initial reactions, which is precisely WHY I didn't bring the subject up with her. I was hoping that by the time she ASKED me to meet this new beau, I'd have a better understanding of these reactions and with any luck be ready to meet him without these jaded feelings.
In any case, I called her back and left a message saying that I think we could at least try to put this issue behind us for today and talk about it later when we've both cooled off, and that it's really important to me that we allow the 8 other people involved have a "Happy Thanksgiving" and that perhaps we, if we stop laying blame on each other for this one day, might also have a "Happy Thanksgiving".
So, I'm posting this here because I feel that I was trying to be authentic and diplomatic which clearly didn't work. So I went for extreme honesty, and probably said a few things that could've been worded more diplomatically, yet here we are..at an impasse of sorts and my joy and excitement over being the hostess-with-the-mostess is pretty much gone. I'm working on it though, which is another reason why I'm posting this. To just get it out and perhaps have some dialogue about it that doesn't end with hanging up on me. I realize I can sometimes be insensitive, but this time I felt the need to protect my children's sensitivities as well...and my youngest one's aren't even fully aware that their grandparents have separated. That's my fault. They've just been going through so much that I was trying to wait til after the holidays to tell them.
Ah. FUCK.
end rant.
-K
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Re: Ah, family holiday drama. How cliche.
Thu, November 27, 2008 - 3:22 PMok. first of all: BIG HUGS.
that's a bitch. families are a bitch. hell, chances are your mom is a bitch, i don't know. ;)
i think it's hard to know what to offer on this one, because no matter what we do
we can't help but relay a story of what happens in our lives *without* doing so in
a way that makes us seem in the right. As such, i'm trying to keep an open mind
to the idea that your mom may have felt.... something... understandable and may
not be the 'bad guy', whether you paint her out to be or not.
now. that said?
here's what i have to offer...
Opinion:
YOU'RE RIGHT here. it's your house, a family holiday, and you worked hard on it.
She should know YOU well enough to know that this would be something you
weren't going to be comfortable with.
hell, if someone here had said "Nicole, from what you know of Kryssa via the
internet, do you think she would be comfortable with her mom's new boyfriend
joining them for thanksgiving dinner, having never met her family prior?" i would
have said 'hell no' immediately. it's not rocket science. Holidays can be tense
enough, and family dynamics even tenser, without throwing a third party into the
mix who is liable to be just as uncomfortable being there as everyone else is in
having them there.
Advice:
call her up, say you're sorry, and when she gets there throw that pretty pecan pie
right in her face while singing the theme to Blazing Saddles at the top of your lungs.
in all seriousness... i'm sorry you had to deal with that today.
hopefully she'll pull her head back out of her ass and salvage the holiday... and if not,
i hope that you and the rest of your family have a great time without her, while she stews.
and maybe, just maybe, she'll eventually figure out where you're at... it's not rocket science.
big hugs. again. -
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Unsu...
Re: Ah, family holiday drama. How cliche.
Thu, November 27, 2008 - 3:38 PMNicole, thanks sweetie. Big Hugs to you as well. it's beautiful and a little bit scary that you know me perhaps better than my mother...but there it is.
And I left a message apologizing for having the knee-jerk reaction that I did. I felt blind-sided and my attempts to skate through it with it with teh excuse of not having enough places to sit was not fully honest nor particularly compassionate.
She is now coming for dinner, but says she can only be here for about an hour because she has to get back to her new boyfriend. Is this a compromise or a punishment? Hard to tell yet. On teh bright side, I won't have to make mashed potatoes or pecan pie (well, that's only moderately bright as her lack of culinary skills are precisely WHY I taught myself to cook...lol). I was really looking forward to playing charades with her though. When we're on the same team, we kick ass! When we're not, we get to watch each other being total idiots. What's not to love about either scenario?
Alas, it looks as if she'll be leaving right after dinner so no charades. sigh. I always love it when she makes someone improv the "Bhagivad Ghita", as she always does.
Happy Thursday to you, Nicole. (I assume T-day isn't celebrated in Canada?)
-K
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Re: Ah, family holiday drama. How cliche.
Thu, November 27, 2008 - 3:44 PMOh, we celebrate the shit outta this holiday... we just did it a month ago :)
It's big of you to have recognized your having felt blind-sided, and to have
apologized for your reaction therein. Hopefully your willingness to communicate
will be contagious, or at the very least appreciated and taken with grace.
In my mind it's a little silly to pull the 'can only stay an hour to get back to the new
boyfriend', but what can ya do... maybe, in her mind, that IS a compromise on her
part, which will have to be accepted with grace on yours.
Your ability to recognize the fun you have and the enjoyment you bring one another
is the best thing, in all this... I hope when she gets there you guys enjoy the time
you have, and I wish you a great thanksgiving. :)
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Re: Ah, family holiday drama. How cliche.
Thu, November 27, 2008 - 3:53 PM<She is now coming for dinner, but says she can only be here for about an hour because she has to get back to her new boyfriend. Is this a compromise or a punishment? Hard to tell yet.>
Sounds like a compromise.. but the only thing which determines whether it is or is not is your reaction. I feel sorry for your kids though that the 3 month BF seems more important than them. And you. And good manners. But I don't think the chances of explaining it just now are good..so close to the event and I would bide time before doing so.. the thing about effective communication it is not just what you say - but when. Timing can be key and I often delay saying things until the right moment when my message will get across - for me the point is communicating effectively - not simply opening my mouth - but having my words heard and internalised by the listener - timing can be just as important in that as the detail of the words you use.. .
BUT.. if she is in a crap mood - it might actually be doing you and yours a favour if she stays for only an hour :)
But the eternal question remains.. why some parents forget when they are invited to, or are in, their kids house they often forget what they are - a parent for sure.. but a guest nonetheless..
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Re: Ah, family holiday drama. How cliche.
Thu, November 27, 2008 - 3:57 PM>>I assume T-day isn't celebrated in Canada<<
Canada has celebrated Thanksgiving longer than the U.S. has. -
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Unsu...
Re: Ah, family holiday drama. How cliche.
Thu, November 27, 2008 - 4:54 PMDidn't know that about Canada, wild and Nicole. Thanks for the info.
So, the saga apparently continues. Mom was supposed to be here about an hour ago. All of teh food is ready now- as I anticipated we'd all eat about an hour after guests arrived. She simply didn't show up. So I called her. I asked if she's still coming as per our last convo she said she was. She asked, "Didn't [your son] tell you that we're not coming? He (my 15 y/o son) said that the other guests weren't arriving til after 7pm?"
Just a miscommunication between my son and his grandmother that she is now using to further her agenda. We DO have 2 other guests arriving just for dessert and charades but apparently that's too late because her boyfriend will already be with her. When I asked my son about this, he said he never told her that dinner was at 7pm or that she shouldn't come, just that a couple of other folks will be coming at 7pm for dessert. Again, she saw a way to use this info, and my son, as a way of furthering her fucked up passive-aggressive B.S. The next phase involves her martyering herself as the mother and grandmother that nobody wants, and then comes the guilt and shame tactics. But this time she's using one of my children. Nope.
Game over.
Do not insert another coin.
I'm done with this. I don't have enough room for the turkey, the wild rice, sausage, pecan and apricot stuffing, the rosemary infused roasted sweet potatoes, the pumpkin bisque, green beans, or orange zested cranberry sauce and then pumpkin cheesecake with fresh whipped cream and toasted pecans, let alone room for the caustic bullshite my mother has brought into this menu. She can stew in her own toxicity. No doubt I'll get to partake of it soon enough with Christmas/Hannakuh/Solstice (though I imagine that she's given up on Hannakuh now that she's divorcing her Jewish husband) and then there's my twins' birthdays in early January.
Maybe this is a good thing for the kiddo's. It doesn't really do any good for me to try to explain how unstable and passive aggressive she is because she so often hides behind her self-righteous/martyr bullshit, which displaces the blame to anyone and everyone else. This way they'll be able to see for themselves, but I was really hoping to ease them into it at another time...when it's NOT the holiday season and there's so much emphasis on family. Fuck. No. There is no good way of imparting this information, is there? It hardly matters to them whether I am to 'blame' or she is to 'blame', because teh end result is that they don't have their grandmother.
Sorry. Just working through this.
Commence with tomato throwing if necessary.
-K
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Re: Ah, family holiday drama. How cliche.
Thu, November 27, 2008 - 7:55 PMWell then , I hope she enjoyed her thanksgiving dinner of mash potatoes and pecan pie then.
At some point K, you are allowed to tell your mom to fuck off. You just can't actually say the actual words" Fuck off". But the english language has many different words to express the same sentiment as that. -
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Re: Ah, family holiday drama. How cliche.
Fri, November 28, 2008 - 2:13 AMat the risk of just being the devil (im sure someone else can be the advocate...) - both k AND her mom are passive aggressive 13 yo kids and this scenario is completely ridiculous !!!
hey, this is EH - and that is my opinion.
case in point - k obviously knows that her mom is a passive-aggressive fuckwit - so WHY would she plan an elaborate, exact-place-setting, charades-mandatory evening ?? (while also inviting her mother?) that is just ridiculous...
her mother obviously knows that her daughter is just as much a control-freak and passive-aggressive witch as she is - so why the FUCK does she decide to pull her own p-a crap in the middle of a holiday celebration?
guess what - they both (subconsciously, i guess) wanted some sort of drama... well - congrats, you got it... happy? thought so - heres your prize - heartburn and bad feelings... congrats.
clearly k is smart enough (and experienced enough - cmon she has her own kids now) to know that nothing ever goes as planned. in particular, she already had allowed 2 guests to arrive for dessert already.
also, her mom is smart enough (and experienced enough - cmon she double-booked the evening already) to know that there was going to be drama when she sprung the news on her daugter. in particular, she already HAD drama by double-booking - we dont know the details of what the new-boyfriend knew about all this... my guess? he had NO clue - and so now he just gets to hear the story about her control-freak daughter - rather than the stupid uncommunicative witch he is actually dating.
since clearly the mother is never going to grow up... and if k is unwilling to outgrow her mother and learn lessons from the experience, then there truly is no hope here... ive got at least a dozen different suggestion (all of the "fix it" variety, cuz im a guy - and that is just the way we think) of how this could have all been avoided - worked around - even enjoyed - for k, independent of her ridiculous mother...
truth is - k does not WANT to have it fixed or worked around... thus, she should just stew in her own NON-mashed-potatoes dinner... while her mother stews with her pecan pie...
yeah yeah - harsh, i know - but i had a totally LOVELY thanksgiving - and there were all KINDS of disaster scenarios available for the situation, but you know what? it was a lovely evening anyway - cuz we were all there to celebrate our getting together and thanx...
i made over 20 quarts of fruit salad - for a dinner party of 33 people... guess what - that is about 16 quarts more than they couldve possibly eaten - there were so many leftovers that it was just ridiculous... i brought lots of to-go items and i only came home with a couple of quarts of leftovers (which i will eat) and some leftovers of the other stuff too... it was a great day - and afaict - everyone that DID show up (for the most part) had a good time as well...
good luck to you, k. i apologize for being harsh - but you nailed it in the title - it IS cliche... is there any reason that you want to live a cliche life? (and no, that was NOT sarcastic, that was a simple-honest question) if you do NOT want to live a BAD cliche life, then maybe try for a GOOD cliche life... it really is _just_ as easy to accomplish...
hugs, h. -
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Re: Ah, family holiday drama. How cliche.
Fri, November 28, 2008 - 6:37 AMok - i had a nice nap and feel better. im replying to myself for two reasons. first, an apology to k (more genuine hopefully) that i was so annoying in my previous post. i was angry (at myself) about several things that happened during my thanksgiving. not the least of which was spending all that time making fruit salad when i didnt need to - and thus looking like an idiot to myself and others. i had no place to vent my self-anger because everryone around me was happy and laughing it off. hell, it was contagious - _I_ was happy... and yet, there was still some anger about the day that i needed to vent. i did so in my prior post - and that is not fair. apologies.
second - im gonna go ahead and answer my own post by doing the following: lets rewrite the EMOTIONS that occurred while keeping all the facts of k's situation identical... ok... (pre-script, if i screw up some of the details - i apologize, im doing this from memory - but the general point will be the same)
k: i planned an elaborate family thanksgiving dinner. i learned to cook and become a good mother to my twins because my OWN mother was difficult (and NOT a good cook) when i was growing up. my mom is still alive - she is just finishing divorce 5 and appears to have a new boyfriend. however, for consistency with my own family - i planned a martha stewart event for 10 people (mostly my own family) and including my mother. i will see my twins grandfather (my step-father 5) on sunday. it was a pot luck dinner and most everything was accounted for, but mom was gonna bring the mashed potatoes and pecan pie for dessert.
k: of course, the best laid plans of mice and martha-stewart always seem to go awry - do you want to hear this one? lol.
k: my mom called the morning-of-tday and after chatting about (xxx - forgot the detail), she let slip that she wanted to bring her new 21 year-younger boyfriend along to dinner !!! can you believe it? well, i was assertive and honest and told her that i had some reservations about the whole idea. unfortunately, we ended up miscommunicating (isnt that SO cliche - mothers and daughters not understanding each other?) and so someone hung up and i got back to my preparations...
k: a little later, i picked up a message that my mom "decided" that the best compromise - since she had sprung this invitation at the last minute and i had expressed my discomfort - was for her to attend the dinner only, but to skip the charades game afterwards. i was kinda bummed about that because the charades game is one of my favorite items - especially with my prim and proper mother... it is always fun to get her to act out (xxxx)... ah well, at least i had a couple of other friends arriving later and there would still be plenty of fun and games.
k: after i was starting to setup the dinner (place settings all arranged, kids all dressed and waiting), i realized that my mother had still not arrived. geez - she apparently was in some sort of hissy-fit about the change-of-plans. well, clearly it was her problem, since she had sprung it on me last minute. i wouldve like tove made amends and had her arrive - especially since without her we were missing the potatoes and pie !!. turns out that she (unfortunately, ALSO true to form) was being a bit too passive aggressive about the whole thing. so she did not show up.
m kids were a bit dissappointed at missing their grandma - tho noone is allowed to call her that - and can you blame her? shes a real cougar - dating a younger man after 5 marriages. she must model herself after a little sluttier demi moore [[[ anger can slip out here - we KNOW this mustve been upsetting ]]] ... also, it screwed up my place settings - i wonder how martha stewart wouldve handled this situation - im sure there must be a perfect way to make this all turn out to be a "good thing". i just couldnt see it...
k: im still trying to figure out what i want to do about my mother. sometimes she comes thru like a champ for these types of events - especially when i have gone to all of this trouble. other times - like today - it just does not seem to work out.... anyone have any ideas? i know the real answer is just to "let it go" - but i needed to vent here and i appreciate you listening... if you have any "fix it" ideas (or you can get martha stewart to answer) then i would be all-ears...
--------------------------
at this point, we would have been left with a different set of options...
we wouldve congratulated you on your honesty with your mother... we wouldve lamented at her obtuseness... we couldve even gotten righteously-angry as well... i dont know if there truly ARE any "fix it" type answers to this different approach to the same situation...
but you see - this would STILL be a cliche - and if you wanted us to - we couldve pointed you towards the further happiness of the fact that your kids got to enjoy turkey on thanksgiving - which is wonderful. we also would be able to help you see OTHER positives in this situation. for instance, it is probably just-as-well that your mother (if she was in THAT kind of mood) did not show up... it couldve damaged the perception that your kids have of a "happy family". and you dont want to have to tarnish that image until they start to figure it out on their own... and they clearly will figure it out... but they will ALSO figure out that YOU are a great mother for trying to get this put together regardless of the stupidities that your family upbringing managed to place in your way... (and if they do NOT realize it - then it is clearly up to you to point it out to them... for instance, you can have a sit down and describe a watered-down version of the truth - DO NOT LIE !!! paint yourself as an understanding and compassionate person in their eyes... ask them how THEY would have reacted differently (if they are old enough)... etc... there are great lessons at family functions for kids... that is WHY there are all these cliches...)
ok - im done... good luck... and again - apologies - and a hug, h.
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Re: Ah, family holiday drama. How cliche.
Fri, November 28, 2008 - 6:41 AM<<her mother obviously knows that her daughter is just as much a control-freak and passive-aggressive witch as she is>>
Harold, I have had differences of opinion with you in the past, but this goes WAY beyond that. You're calling names at someone because she has a sense of social propriety and concern for her children's perception of their grandparents?
<<so WHY would she plan an elaborate, exact-place-setting, charades-mandatory evening ??>>
Her family's tradition is for a large dinner and charades afterwards. If you didn't get that from her initial post, you just aren't paying attention.
<<i made over 20 quarts of fruit salad>>
Who gives a flying fuck? This is not about you and your fruit. She made a multi-course banquet, and it's especially important to her given her career.
In the end, K is absolutely entitled to approve a guest list in her own home. If you can't understand that, you are actually as big a socially-inept douchebag as I always thought you were. And FYI - this is not playing Devil, or Advocate or anything. This is just flaunting your ignorance.
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Re: Ah, family holiday drama. How cliche.
Fri, November 28, 2008 - 9:14 AMHarold, I have decided to continue on like you aren't in this tribe anymore.
>>In the end, K is absolutely entitled to approve a guest list in her own home. If you can't understand that, you are actually as big a socially-inept douchebag as I always thought you were. And FYI - this is not playing Devil, or Advocate or anything. This is just flaunting your ignorance.<<
I personally think he just enjoys being a passive aggressive and mean for the sake of being a mean passive aggressive person.
It is EH, right? -
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Re: Ah, family holiday drama. How cliche.
Fri, November 28, 2008 - 9:17 AMElaine~ Count me in. I just don't read Harold's posts, the ever present ick factor is always too high. Can one be a flasher or back-of-the-bus-dick-fondler online? -
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Re: Ah, family holiday drama. How cliche.
Fri, November 28, 2008 - 9:30 AMAh the good news is that there will soon be the kill file/ ignore function on tribe where you can put a person on "ignore " and never see or hear from them again on this site.
Now if we could only do that in real life with friends and family members. -
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Re: Ah, family holiday drama. How cliche.
Fri, November 28, 2008 - 9:39 AMElaine~ - You can do that with family members and friends! I highly recommend it as a solution if there's nothing to learn and nothing constructive that can be done (and the personal cost of being in touch is just too high). Of course, it is pretty drastic and they don't always go away even if one does ignore them. I've had to to do this with a couple of people in my life over the years, it's not easy but it frees up space in ones life for people who actually like us for who we really are not just what we can do/provide for them (hell, people who love us) and treat us well. It may feel unnatural at first to hang out with people who don't play passive aggressive games - and we do need to be willing to own our own contributions to the dynamic we're getting out of so we don't repeat it with a new person - but it's really, really nice to hang out with people who really enjoy your company, *like* you and genuinely wish you well and all the success in the world because you deserve it (and other lovely sentiments that get us through dark nights of the soul). -
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Re: Ah, family holiday drama. How cliche.
Fri, November 28, 2008 - 9:44 AMOh I know, I am really really good at shunning people and like. It's passive aggressive for sure, but sometimes you have to use the tools mom gives you to get by in the world.
And sometimes, when you can't hit someone or do nefarious things to them because of the ramifications of your actions, a good ol' fashioned simple Ignoring the Person works great. Especially when you actually get to the point where you forgot the person is there. That's the best part.
I just don't care about people's need to have feelings for the most part, so this method works great for me. -
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Unsu...
Re: Ah, family holiday drama. How cliche.
Fri, November 28, 2008 - 12:06 PMYa know what's even more predictable and cliche than my mother being a passive-aggressive fuckwit? Harold playing devil's advocate.
-K -
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Re: Ah, family holiday drama. How cliche.
Sat, November 29, 2008 - 7:46 AMheh - too funny...
for the haters/ignorers:
wellp, maybe yall can just be glad that you only had to deal with your OWN families for tday (in RL). just imagine what having ME over for dinner wouldve been like...
yeah - alice-thru-the-looking-glass...
meeting some of yall in RL would definitely be interesting... let me know - im totally willing - if you are...
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Re: Ah, family holiday drama. How cliche.
Fri, November 28, 2008 - 6:56 AM-K - I hope you, your kids and your other guests had fun anyway! Sometimes stuff like this can make us thankful that not everyone in our lives is like that! ;-) I'm wondering, do you think that maybe your mom was actually, in a weird and hidden way, seeking your approval? If she was, it may explain why she acted how she did. You guys *do* seem to have a criticism/approval related dynamic with some inappropriate expectations and confusion about roles (from the sound of this and your previous posts about your relationship). People get shitty with us when we don't fill their neurotic needs sometimes and can resort to emotional blackmail - I'm going through a bit of that with a friend at the moment. -
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Re: Ah, family holiday drama. How cliche.
Fri, November 28, 2008 - 9:06 AMHarold...
once again, you've left me speechless with your idiocy and pure, unadulterated ignorance.
Did Kryssa ever say anything even semblant to "kids were a bit dissappointed at missing
their grandma - tho noone is allowed to call her that - and can you blame her? shes a real
cougar - dating a younger man after 5 marriages. she must model herself after a little
sluttier demi moore" ????????????????
if so, i certainly couldn't find it.
i almost feel compelled to suggest you shove your head deeper INTO your ass rather than
pull it out, in hopes that it will stop you from spouting such ignorant, irrelevant crap.
that said?
I agree with Elaine (as i seem to, more often than not)... although i think sometimes that
a well placed "fuck off, mom" is exactly what needs to be said. i've done it when mine's
pushed me, but that may just be our relationship... we tend to communicate best via a
succinct point-maker, and then bring up the qualifiers afterwards.
K, you have a right to be upset and frustrated with her behavior - and i'm glad you know
that and aren't letting her try and turn that around on you. She's known you your entire life.
From day 1. She should know damn well how to communicate with you without all the
passive agressive bullshit. -
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Re: Ah, family holiday drama. How cliche.
Fri, November 28, 2008 - 9:15 AMHarold is just being an idiot so someone.....anyone....will pay attention to him. I suspect he enjoys the abuse and it makes him feel as if you care. He certainly goes out of his way to get people to tell him he's an idiot. I guess it's cheaper than paying a woman to be mean to him as a way to get his jollies.
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Re: Ah, family holiday drama. How cliche.
Tue, December 2, 2008 - 8:51 PMThe menus sounded great.
Next year, if in the nieghbourhood, I would be willing to don a dress and be totally fucking charming for such a free feed !
