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So I was going through the TV dial on Easter Sunday and came across TV Preacher Joel Osteen. He said, "Jesus was crucified on Good Friday and rose on Easter Sunday". Do any of you actually beleive this? The date of Easter is different every year so there is no way that is a true statement. Why can't big time mainstream Christianity make any sense of dates and anniversaries?
I guess they do OK on Christmas since its always celebrated on Jesus' un-birthday December 25th even though its generally accepted that that wasn't Jesus' birthday.
I guess if you beleive in invisible men in the sky and zombie Jesus you might as well mess with the dates.
I guess they do OK on Christmas since its always celebrated on Jesus' un-birthday December 25th even though its generally accepted that that wasn't Jesus' birthday.
I guess if you beleive in invisible men in the sky and zombie Jesus you might as well mess with the dates.
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Unsu...
Re: Question for Christians
Tue, April 6, 2010 - 9:02 AMWhy Does the Date for Easter Change Every Year?
christianity.about.com/od/faq...nge.htm
Church leaders pushing for unified date for Easter
www.times-herald.com/local/C...-1071658
Reform of the date of Easter
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refo..._of_Easter
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Re: Question for Christians
Tue, April 6, 2010 - 12:35 PMBut, Apache? Do you believe it happened? I'm not a Christian, so it doesn't matter that I don"t believe it. -
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Re: Question for Christians
Tue, April 6, 2010 - 1:08 PMi'm not a christian, never have been
what jesus did or didn't do has never been a factor in my life/beliefs
i simply provided some links that respond to some questions in the OP
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Unsu...
Re: Question for Christians
Tue, April 6, 2010 - 1:17 PMand for the record
i am equally annoyed by adherents of the high doctrine of atheist fundamentalism
as i am by any branch of religious zealotry -
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Re: Question for Christians
Tue, April 6, 2010 - 4:29 PMWell, you'll not find me in the ranks of atheist fundamentalism, either. Unlike fundamentalists of all sorts, I don't claim to KNOW anything about the afterlife, other worlds, or any of that. Just asking.
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Re: Question for Christians
Tue, October 12, 2010 - 4:41 AM"and for the record
i am equally annoyed by adherents of the high doctrine of atheist fundamentalism
as i am by any branch of religious zealotry "
You never cease to remind me of why l like you so much.
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Re: Question for Christians
Wed, April 7, 2010 - 8:07 AMWell, the problem with having Easter always on the same date has to do with the fact that we didn't start using our current calendar until long after Jesus died. The whole Anno Domini thing obviously didn't start until they nailed him up. The Julian calendar (in use then) measured time by lunar cycles, thereby setting Good Friday and Easter Sunday at a fixed moon cycle/vernal equinox point.
\pedantic_rant
On a related note, I heard a comedian do a bit on the days between Friday and Sunday.
"What the fuck was he doing in that cave for those three days? Trying to figure out of it was all just a bad trip or something?" -
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Re: Question for Christians
Wed, April 7, 2010 - 3:49 PMWhat does Jesus have to do with Easter Bunny?
How the fuck did that alliance happen? -
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Re: Question for Christians
Wed, April 7, 2010 - 6:11 PMSame way the Yule log and Christmas trees got associated with his birth. Old traditions from older cultures and religions got absorbed into Christianity.
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Re: Question for Christians
Wed, April 7, 2010 - 7:11 PM<<What does Jesus have to do with Easter Bunny?>>
Jesus doesn't lay chocolate eggs. DUH. -
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Re: Question for Christians
Wed, April 7, 2010 - 8:44 PMMuch of Christianity is enmeshed in symbols rather than facts. I think it's an error in judgment for Christians and non-Christians alike to mistake the symbolic for the real, the map for the territory, and take things too literally. Christianty embraces an ornate symbology and since one of the symbols for Christ is the dove, perhaps it's not too much of a stretch to a bunny. I mean, both creatures are soft, gentle, and don't they both make cooing sounds? When I find a religion that worships flying rabbits, I will be on my knees with kneepads. -
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Re: Question for Christians
Wed, April 7, 2010 - 11:18 PMI thought it might be because both bunnies and messiahs are delicious with wine. -
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Re: Question for Christians
Tue, October 12, 2010 - 4:43 AM"I thought it might be because both bunnies and messiahs are delicious with wine. "
You never cease to remind me of why l like you so much.
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Re: Question for Christians
Mon, May 3, 2010 - 11:28 AMthe ancient Goddess Eoster of the Norse religion, ( Asatru, and others) was associated with a rabbit, and when the Christian people were pulling their usual, ( you know, knock down the temple of holiness, and build your own church on top of it, rename the holy days, and steal the symbols, etc etc, ) somehow the Christian church decided that the NEW HOLY DAY of the birth of Christ, ( or whatever) was now symbolized by the same symbol of the ancient goddess Eoster, thereby guaranteeing the conversion of countless heathen folk. ( ridiculous , isnt it? what were they thinking? HOW IN HELL did they pull this one off?) -
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Re: Question for Christians
Wed, November 10, 2010 - 5:19 PMOh, it seems to have been a winning strategy for millennia now.
The bunny symbology was part of the pre-christian iconography, being symbolic of fertility, quickening, spring. The bunny just got hoovered up with all the rest of the spring equinox associations... eggs, green grass, new life, etc etc.
There's a certain internal logic to it all if you let it sink in a little.
Syncretism at it's finest. Alexander the Great may have institutionalized the practice of cultural imperialism, but the Catholic church elevated it to an artform.
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Re: Question for Christians
Sat, May 1, 2010 - 7:19 PMI'm not Christian, but I thought posting some links for your own information would help everyone to make their own decisions....
paganismwicca.suite101.com/arti...pagan
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Bunny
www.wisegeek.com/what-are-...-bunny.htm
www.nowpublic.com/culture/e...00420.html
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Re: Question for Christians
Mon, May 3, 2010 - 11:32 PMI sort of ignored this topic when it was posted.. I read it as hostile.. the OP just turned me off.. but I also think it is right to say the comments are fair..
In the study of comparative religions and culture, syncretism always makes for an interesting topic to explore..
Religious syncretism is a well know phenomenon.. I would say there are many many devout Christians who accept it. I have family members who do.. who describe themselves as "Irish Catholics" (they are really Roman Catholics.. but are more fun.. and, like a lot of Catholics I know.. they tend to cringe 75% of the time at the Popes words..).. they firmly can see and also acknowledge Pagan Traditions being incorporated into their faith.. from Easter.. to Christmas.. to personages like St Bridget (who many argue with good reason is a reworking on an older pagan fertility goddess.)
This is *really old news* and I was taught about it both at my Catholic Primary and Secondary Schools..
Wikipedia says
"Religious syncretism exhibits blending of two or more religious belief systems into a new system, or the incorporation into a religious tradition of beliefs from unrelated traditions. This can occur for many reasons, and the latter scenario happens quite commonly in areas where multiple religious traditions exist in proximity and function actively in the culture, or when a culture is conquered, and the conquerors bring their religious beliefs with them, but do not succeed in entirely eradicating the old beliefs or, especially, practices.
Religions may have syncretic elements to their beliefs or history, but adherents of so-labeled systems often frown on applying the label, especially adherents who belong to "revealed" religious systems, such as the Abrahamic religions, or any system that exhibits an exclusivist approach. Such adherents sometimes see syncretism as a betrayal of their pure truth. By this reasoning, adding an incompatible belief corrupts the original religion, rendering it no longer true. Indeed, critics of a specific syncretistic trend may sometimes use the word "syncretism" as a disparaging epithet, as a charge implying that those who seek to incorporate a new view, belief, or practice into a religious system actually distort the original faith. Non-exclusivist systems of belief, on the other hand, may feel quite free to incorporate other traditions into their own."
And how do they reconcile this ? Simply.. if god exists.. then he/she/it is a mystery.. and as a mystery it is inevitable humans will not, and cannot, comprehend god... so there is no point getting your knickers in a knot about religious syncretism..
And the follow-on logic is fundamentalist who proclaim to know the will of god and have an intimate relationship with him/her/it seem silly to such believers.. esp when using the Bible as the basis for that claim.. because a 9 year old can observe they are eating shell fish and not stoning their wives who cheat. .blah blah blah.. they all pick and choose the sections they want from both the Bible and Christianity.. when they start yelling at others about this.. it moves from silly to evil... especially when they impinge on others rights to live their lives as they see fit without detriment to those around them...(but that's a completely different conversation.. best held in Fun with Fundies)
If there are central message beyond the salvation message of Christianity (which you gotta admit *is* the central message), it is "love one another".. but again.. like those who focus on other stuff.. the tradition I was brought up in pick and chooses.. and they combine the salvation, love one another with the 'judge not" messages.. and the forgiveness messages.. and I think they come out with a basically benevolent force.. *especially* when they practice those values about themselves as individuals (*self* love and *self* forgiveness) as well as those who surround them.. -
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Re: Question for Christians
Tue, October 12, 2010 - 4:51 AM"If there are central message beyond the salvation message of Christianity (which you gotta admit *is* the central message), it is "love one another".."
l can think of a number of religions that espouse this tenet.
"pick and chooses.. and they combine the salvation, love one another with the 'judge not" messages.. and the forgiveness messages.. and I think they come out with a basically benevolent force.."
Really? See, l don't think so, though. The Lord judgeth thee on so many occasions it's not even funny. Also, punisheth the shit out of you when you stray from the mixed expectations imposed upon thee. A benevolent god is directly related to the perspective of its interpreter. As far as l can tell, the Christian god l was taught about in schools (versus the god my parents taught me) was an especially vicious kind of special.
"*especially* when they practice those values about themselves as individuals (*self* love and *self* forgiveness) as well as those who surround them.."
l would say "only" instead of "especially", but on this we agree. -
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Re: Question for Christians
Tue, October 12, 2010 - 9:05 PM<l can think of a number of religions that espouse this tenet. >
Yep.. it is why it is called the golden rule collectivedreams.tribe.net/phot...a7253
<l would say "only" instead of "especially", but on this we agree.>
we do - including on your edit. -
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Re: Question for Christians
Tue, October 12, 2010 - 9:43 PMThe golden rule is a universal truth.
Sometimes, you CANNOT help but get involved. In the short run, it may cause you pain or anguish. In the long run, you'll know you did the right thing. So it was one fateful morning for me, when I was on the road back from Burningman in 2008. We had been driving all night, and this happened:
people.tribe.net/missouri-...9#comments
It humbles you immensely knowing that you've affected the life of another human being by your actions.
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Re: Question for Christians
Tue, October 19, 2010 - 1:34 AM^Rhino:
Great story. A couple of questions, since we're in Extreme Honesty and all.
"A semi had jacknifed across the road. It was aflame, the diesel engine burning over the cab. A second vehicle, a car, appeared to have its right side totally crushed. No help of any kind in sight. Damn.
When should a burner get involved?
Whenever people need him or her, and government isn't available to help.
I told Ron, "Let's go....people may need us! We're BURNERS.""
Per your first question, fifth sentence - burners have nothing to do with it. This is civil duty, human obligation. Your last line. l'm sorry, but again, without disrespect, your statement comes off as though because you're Burners, and maybe you're the only ones present, that you fulfill some special function other humans lack. "People may need us! We're BURNERS." lt implies a semi-messianic intent that l hope isn't what l'm reading into it. l know a number of Burners who are certainly willing to come to someone's aid at the drop of a hat, and l believe that's a huge part of the culture. But maybe you should take care in making sure you don't come off as preachy or superior. l'm not saying you *are*, because your story is amazing and certainly says something about who you are (and who you are is clearly amazing as well!). But finally, l think being a burner has nothing to do with it. lt's about being an ordinary human, finding yourself in an extraordinary situation, and then taking the essential steps to do what is right.
"It humbles you immensely knowing that you've affected the life of another human being by your actions."
Hm. l'd reword that too. Here's my version:
"lt humbles you immensely to realize you've been given the opportunity to affect a person's life dramatically, and to know at that very moment, you are not the person you're affecting."
Just my thoughts. -
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Re: Question for Christians
Tue, October 19, 2010 - 8:43 AMAnd your thoughts are totally valid and justified.
Unfortunately, I see my role is in the encouragement of other burners (who aren't involved as much as the could or should be) to GET involved, and BE the ordinary person attempting extraordinary things at moments of crisis. I saw a wonderful sports video last night, and some of the players on the field were doing extraordinary things (half-field bad angle soccer goals, fingertip catches in football, and near-perfect fielding in baseball while sliding on one's face). I'll post a link to it.
Burners are no better than any other group on the planet, IMHO. We're just crazy individuals who like to get desert-baked and burn things.
"Hm. l'd reword that too. Here's my version:
"lt humbles you immensely to realize you've been given the opportunity to affect a person's life dramatically, and to know at that very moment, you are not the person you're affecting." "
You said it much better than I did.
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Re: Question for Christians
Tue, October 19, 2010 - 1:20 AM"Yep.. it is why it is called the golden rule collectivedreams.tribe.net/phot...a7253"
Nifty link, thank you. -
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Re: Question for Christians
Sat, June 18, 2011 - 6:30 PManyone truly in need or want welcomes the help.
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