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"In case you're wondering, yeah, I am still sore about you dogging me for the shallow entertainment of your jerk-off Orange Cafeteria Internet show-n-tell friends, "confiding" in them that you lost all respect for me. That's why this "long lost sometimes comrade" hasn't had a hell of a lot to say to you lately. Don't tell me (and everybody else in your Oprah Winfrey emo-circle jerk party) what a shit I am and then continue to send me pieces of song lyrics, drunken admonishments about your stupid birthday, gloating updates about how all your dreams are coming true and toned-down revisions of those updates when it all comes crashing down.
Good luck with your damn cookbook. Try not to give yourself away so cheaply to the next good looking, artsy guy who's actually nice to you next time, huh?"
Oh and btw, the previous friend/fuckwit was my first "sweetie", so factor that in as you analyze/deconstruct.
-K
Good luck with your damn cookbook. Try not to give yourself away so cheaply to the next good looking, artsy guy who's actually nice to you next time, huh?"
Oh and btw, the previous friend/fuckwit was my first "sweetie", so factor that in as you analyze/deconstruct.
-K
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Re: Your thoughts?
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 12:10 AMHa, that's some prime entertainment right there. I have seen more creative versions of this sort of thing. Did this message come to you out of the blue?
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You ought to make some of those photo Christmas cards made with a picture of him and then that exact quote in the season's greetings message. Then send it out.
Oh that would be so awesome. You have to do it.
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Unsu...
Re: Your thoughts?
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 12:12 AMAlso (I should have stated this before) that I have next to NO IDEA what he is talking about. At first I thought he was accusing me of talking to old high school chums (the Orange Cafeteria reference) about him. And though I've tried to find a few of them over the years I haven't been very successful and my 23 year old relationship with this man wouldn;t be the MAIN topic anyway. That said, I did find one, but we didn't discuss *him*.
SO, then I thought that he might be accusing me of talking about him here, on tribe. Well, that's possible, but not likely as my energies were taken up with another man til a few months ago.
Whatever the instigation, after 2 plus decades of sometimes close friendship and sometimes THIS, it seems clear that this person and I have no reason to continue communicating...I think. ?
Very confused.
-K -
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Re: Your thoughts?
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 12:14 AMWait- so this guy is from when?
Deets...
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Unsu...
Re: Your thoughts?
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 12:14 AMElaine, I DO actually have a few old photos of him, and him and me.
What caption are ya thinkin?
-K -
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Unsu...
Re: Your thoughts?
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 12:22 AMWe met in 1985.
then off and on [insert ridiculous and meaningful stuff here] for the next 10 years.
Then he came to visit me here in Montana about 10 years ago.
Then I moved to Virginia to be closer to him 9 years ago (and quickly moved back).
We didn't speak for about 5 years.
Then he found me on a message board website and we began chatting and emailing.
Then we had a fight (I don't even remember what it was about) and didn't speak for a couple of years.
Then he found me HERE, on tribe, and we communicated for about a year before it soured.
NOW, it's beyond sour. It's acrid. Toxic, even.
-K
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Re: Your thoughts?
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 12:26 AM"Good luck with your damn cookbook." <-- I keep laughing when I read this.
But it seems kind of indicative of his mixed emotions about you. On one hand, he's really mad about being portrayed as a jerk (never mind the very fact: that he even read what you posted shows a little cyberstalking), and on the other hand it's clear he actually cares about you. Even if, in this case, it comes out in a bitter, jealous rant.
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Re: Your thoughts?
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 12:31 AMI think he is just jealous he didn't get invited to your emo circle jerk party, actually.
Those are the best and easiest parties to throw,cause the cake just cuts itself. -
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Re: Your thoughts?
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 5:26 AM>>the cake just cuts itself.
roflmao...
uh - even with the extra context, i have no idea whats going on. odds are he is somewhere-in-his-own-head. if you care, then you could ask him what-the-hell-hes-talking-about. otherwise, id say just ignore it... if it was important to him, hed probably repeat himself and THEN you could ask wtf? ...
when something this bizarre comes TO me, i assume that it is due to similar reasons as to why it might come FROM me. im drunk, im insane, or im being a troll... lol if he was a woman, id add its that-time-of-month...
gl, h.
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Unsu...
Re: Your thoughts?
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 8:30 AM"the cake just cuts itself."
That is priceless, Elaine!!!!!!!
I'm never throwin an emo circle jerk party here without YOU.
Hey, I wonder if he thinks THIS thread is about him...? hahahahahahahahahahaha
-K -
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Re: Your thoughts?
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 9:25 AMyeah... i'm with Josh.
stop putting energy and thought into him at all, be it to try and
play nice or to post what he said here... the less you bother
with him at all, the less you'll care when he has something
like this to say, and when he realizes you don't give a shit ?
he'll stop bothering too. -
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Unsu...
Re: Your thoughts?
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 12:02 PMYeah. I haven't really attempted much communication with him other than something along the lines of "Hope you're doing well", " I like the new music page you put up" and " Take care" every few months. I believe I've emailed him short, succinct well-wishing emails 3 times in the past year or so, but apparently even THAT is just too much. So okay. No more. I think I just didn't want to give up on him because we HAVE known each other for so long...but clearly the length of time we'e known each other is not an indication that we have anything close to a remotely healthy friendship.
It'll be strange to just completely cut him out...but it's not as if we really have anything to hang onto anymore anyway, right?
Anyway, thanks.
-K -
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Re: Your thoughts?
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 2:50 PM>>right?
lol - that is your decision, not ours - or his. personally, i enjoy getting a little drama-induction every once-in-awhile. thus, i keep some drama-possible people around - at about the once-a-quarter level - and i dont worry about it if they try to provide me with drama and im not interested. just ignore it if you dont want to "play". just like he (or others) can ignore _you_ if they are not in a space to deal with your-drama (or mine, in my case).
if this was a currently-extremely-important-relationship then i might recommend differently.
and yes, apparently this song was "about him"... lol. hugs, h. -
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Re: Your thoughts?
Thu, October 23, 2008 - 10:22 AM"NOW, it's beyond sour. It's acrid. Toxic, even."
To me , that sais it all. Communication is a waste of time at this point. He obviously likes any attention from you , even the negative kind.
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Re: Your thoughts?
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 7:25 AMMaybe I have simply never met somebody I became addicted to or maybe I'm not capable of that kind of addiciton because I'm a robot, but given all the times you got along and then fought and stopped talking, what the fuck is there to debate about? Stop talking to this guy and be better for it. -
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Re: Your thoughts?
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 7:35 AMdid he think your posts on this tribe about the other dude (pretty guy) were about him? that's the only thing I can think of, in which case the Fuck Off Mix Tape you send to him should clearly include some Carly Simon.
In any case, dude's obviously got some anger issues that run much deeper than his relationship with you, and you're probably well shut of him, even though it's hard to let go of that much history. I'm sorry you're having to deal with a shithead, but reminding him that only opera singers should sing "Me me me me" is probably a waste of your breath.
Also: I want a cookbook when it comes out. Perhaps 2. Or 3.
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Re: Your thoughts?
Thu, October 23, 2008 - 2:21 PMum, we're only seeing one side of this.
from what you've put here i'd say the guy certainly hasn't chosen the best way to express himself.
but presumably we've all heard that there are 2 sides to every story.
w/only one side given to us, none of our opinions on the matter really mean a goddam thing.
so, what is the purpose of this thread exactly? -
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Unsu...
Re: Your thoughts?
Thu, October 23, 2008 - 8:22 PMIt seems fairly clear what his side is...read the initial post again. And though I imagine he must've read something here that I posted about a man I was recently involved with and then assumed I was talking about him, I didn't really have a side until I received that email from him. In any case, since he was so sure I was posting about HIM I thought I might as well and break that unspoken taboo and do exactly that...while also getting some interesting input from some interesting people here.
-K -
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Unsu...
Re: Your thoughts?
Thu, October 23, 2008 - 8:24 PMOh, and I did respond and asked him exactly what he was talking about and didn't receive a response, which was another reason why I was interested in getting feedback from others.
-K -
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Re: Your thoughts?
Fri, October 24, 2008 - 10:23 AM>>didn't receive a response
ha. too funny. uh, either he found someone else more-willing to wade around in his drama for the day (and is now "over it" -or- he is expecting you to mind-read and/or keep asking him to explain... too funny. up to you, but i think (assuming you dont keep asking him to interact) that you are already almost done-with-him... either you will stop getting bizarre tirades when hes insane (since you dont respond in a way he wants) -or- you will stop responding to him because youve "outgrown" him... lol.
otoh, all it takes is for YOU to go ahead and invite him into your world again - by maybe asking his opinion about something or by chatting him up when YOU have some drama to deal with - and yall will be back to same-old, same-old. it truly is up-to-you...
gl, h. -
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Re: Your thoughts?
Fri, October 24, 2008 - 10:38 AM>>invite him
i just reread the initial post again. basically, he is saying that he does not want you to interact with him. he is trying his best to find ways to piss-you-off, which are apparently coming off strange because you are not inside-his-head. the historical-references might or might-not make sense if he explained them.
now, whether he is asking you to "go away" because he truly IS mad-at/tired-of you or whether he is asking you to "go away" in a reverse-psychological-way to get you to come and nurture him... is your call. you know the relationship (past) and what he typically would do, so youll have to decide (for yourself) what it might mean.
of course a totally different question is - what do you want to DO about it all, assuming you know what it means... that, again, is your call. pretty much everyone here is saying to "dump him" and you are asking us to do so by labelling him as "toxic". otoh, you clearly do care about him (for whatever reasons) and so i doubt youre going to dump him.
the real question is - ignoring anything that HE says/does, what do YOU want to say/do ? hmmm? is this a relationship (in whatever form it takes) that you care about maintaining ? it takes energy to maintain a relationship and most of us are lazy. clearly you are not, since you have been keeping him updated with "little perfunctory notes". _why_ are you doing this ? nostalgia ? sometimes it truly is good to "clean the desk" so that you can make room for new things to enter your life...
again, gl, h. -
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Unsu...
Re: Your thoughts?
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 12:29 PM">>invite him", harold says.
I am relatively certain that he's read this entire thread, harold, based on the fact that he's already misinterpreted a post or two I wrote as being about 'him' in the past year or so when they clearly were NOT about him (narcissism strikes in many forms) . No real need to invite him as it would be fairly simple for him to request an invite directly from Rich if he so desired. But, he won't. It's a sense of pride for him. He'd consider himself above all of this. He wouldn't want any of you thinking that he a-) gives a shit, and b-) that it really IS all about him this time.
In any event, I think this thread has successfully accomplished the one thing I haven't been able or previously willing to accomplish on my own in the last 23 years, so thank you. I also really appreciate the analysis of his email that some of you gave me...I was obviously too close to the situation to see anything other than my own usual take. For example, it never occurred to me that he might have been trying to get me to be the one who finally says ENOUGH. But, in hindsight that makes a lot of sense. I've since unearthed several other emails that basically attempted the same thing though they've always been hard to 'read' because he'd write something that allowed me to believe that he cared A LOT, and juxtaposed it with important I to him...strange. But I feel I have some clarity now. No one wants to be the 'bad guy' . I understand that. I don't condone it, but I get it.
I suppose I'll just have to be the bad guy here, and the fact that I opened this up for discussion (though I never named names) pretty much nails that proverbial coffin shut once and for all.
(A eulogy for the klorine scarecrow and gypsy x...offered a decade or two too late)
-K -
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Re: Your thoughts?
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 5:41 PMIf he is reading this thread then let me add a personal note from me to him
- Suck it, unknown wierd guy K knows, for calling us a emo circle jerk party.
I have not been emo in years.
And stop being a lurky loo. That's just creepy.
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Unsu...
Re: Your thoughts?
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 10:46 PMAh, I finally heard from him and it turns out that he was referring to a post I made sometime last year in this tribe (of which he is not a member):
“I don't have any sage advice, just empathy. I've been exactly where you are now more times than I can count and always as a self-inflicted result of the pain and loss of my first 'true love'. On the *bright side* (?) I've lost so much respect for my first 'true love' that I've been able to separate the pain/loss/longing from what we once shared as sincere love. However, losing that respect and admiration came at a hefty personal price so I wouldn't suggest that as a viable means of amputation.”
Alas, I can't even find that thread in order to piece together who I was responding to or what the theme of the thread was initially about. I can only assume he copied and saved it for just such an occasion.
In any case, his most recent email was far uglier than the one I posted but I'm relieved to say that it had virtually no effect on me...well, other than deleting it about halfway through. He also had some choice words for the folks here in E.H.
However, since he seems to delight in reading everything I write here in tribe I'd like to take a moment and send him one last sentiment:
Hey "G-dawg", ever consider the fact that you had to intentionally SEEK out something negative that I wrote (not to you directly, I might add-- but it's a public forum so obviously I didn't really care whether you read it or not) and you then proceeded to assume it was all about YOU without once approaching me for any sort of clarification, and then not only use it to fuel an entire year's worth of animosity toward me (again, without bothering to let me know what you were so miffed about) but you also apparently copied and SAVED it to your hard drive?
As compared to me just opening my inbox one day and actually being excited that you wrote back (after I mentioned that I enjoyed your music site on myspace and wanted to know how to either download or purchase some of your Balkan fusion music) only to find the hate-filled and vitriolic email that is now the first post of this thread?
Right. Just think about it for a bit...and now tell me, just WHO is hosting this emo circle jerk party?
Okay, I am done. Thank you Rich for allowing me to air this bit of ugly baggage. It's been incredibly cathartic.
-K
And G, you can fuck off. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Your thoughts?
Tue, October 28, 2008 - 1:15 PMat the risk of picking-over and playing-with the bones of a dead horse... ;-)
it is nice that youve _sent him one last sentiment_ here, but imho you have actually invited him to respond... im sorry if that was not your intent, but if _I_ were him and cyber-stalking you, id be delighted that i could still elicit a response from you... (i know, sick, but hey... EH)
so - just a fair warning - the ONLY possible response from here on out to HIM, is to basically ignore anything and everything he might now (or ever in the future) send to you. ignore the cards... ignore the emails... ignore the posts... lose track of his online identities... ignore it ALL... im serious.
feel free to chat about your thoughts/feelings/whatever "about" him, if you need to - tho at this point i would suggest you do so non-publicly as well. if you allow ANY communication from (or TO) him to affect you (in a way that he can "find out" about it), then i swear - you really are just repeating some sort of pattern and technically you are "inviting" him back into your life...
i dont think it will be easy - and if _I_ were him and seriously cyber-stalking, then it is quite-possible that his "last-gasp" effort will be to come here into EH (beware aliases) or someplace else that he "knows" that you "hang out" or that he could "guess" you will see him - and parade some form of taunt for you to "bite".
and, forgive yourself in advance if he succeeds a few times... i seriously have no idea what this person is capable of, but odds are that whatever "joy" he derives from yalls relationship will be as difficult for him to let-go of as it is for you... some solace...
trust me - the only way (well, i was going to say even for ME - but that is not accurate... i will respect a directly-stated f**k o**) that he will go away is if you ignore him... or if he is absolutely not-ignorable, then a flat-affect (no emotion) "goodbye"...
again, i sincerely wish you good luck with this... addictive relationships are incredibly hard to get out of... that is why there are several relationships that _I_ have that really serve no purpose, but i go ahead and keep them alive... they are fun, sometimes... if it has truly stopped being "fun" (substitute ANY emotion that you care to experience for some reason here) for you, then you will need to cut-it-loose...
for me - like gambling, drinking, smoking, or any of the other currenly-in-vogue "addictions" that exist, i do not mind experiencing them - in moderation... if it feels like i am getting addicted to it, then i "swear off" it for awhile (or forever, if necessary).
hugs and gl, h.
ps - for instance, he dredged up a thread from a year ago... that gives you a clue - you cannot seriously expect him to be "gone" for at least another year (and i would triple it - since this thread truly IS about him - in a sense)... like i said, it wont be easy, and there will be temptations for a long time to come... otoh, just think of how much free-time you will have to pursue useful and meaningful relationships between now and then... :-)
like they do in that tv-show supernatural, it is time to salt/burn/bury this body...
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Your thoughts?
Tue, October 28, 2008 - 1:29 PMone quickie (rereading the "response" he gave...)
yes, you DO want to amputate him... he has "told you" exactly how to proceed... consider him a "pinkie toe" that you lost in some sort of accident - he was not critical to your existence (you can still walk, eventually), but now that the dead-appendage is gone you can wear a thinner-toed-shoe... lol. -
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Unsu...
Re: Your thoughts?
Tue, October 28, 2008 - 3:01 PMActually, I think making it semi-public will virtually guarantee that this sorry excuse for a friendship will remain amputated. In teh past whenever he's gotten upset with me-- over anything and everything from asking if he's okay because I hadn't heard from him in awhile to which he responded with something like, "What?!? Now I have to respond in a specific amount of time? Has it ever occurred to you that I'm fucking busy or do you automatically assume my silence means that something is wrong?" to me forgetting what he considers an important detail about our history together some 20+ years ago and him taking serious offense-- I've just either waited out his anger or apologized for my part of whatever it was that created the conflict. More often than not this would result in another email tirade about how selfish and uncaring I am, or about how demanding and reactionary I am...take your pick.
However, now that there's no heavy curtain of privacy in our correspondence I am fairly certain that he'll lose interest in poking and prodding me. it's just not as much fun for him as a spectator sport.
In any case, I blocked his email addy and his tribe profile...not because he's "evil' or anything, but because I just don't have any motivation to keep replaying out these same ridiculous patterns of emotional abuse. Plus, I've often wondered if my unhealthy attachment to him upset the delicate balance of finding a healthy relationship with anyone else, which is of course not his fault, but I'm curious to find out if this amputation might result in a healthier dynamic in future intimate relationships.
-K -
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Re: Your thoughts?
Tue, October 28, 2008 - 3:38 PMway to go !!! congratulations !!! ok, ill take your word for the public-version... it was just my thought about the "invite" stuff... cool...
uhm - i guess youve been G-free for one day. congrats... feel free to revive this thread for your 1 week, 1 month, and 6 month pins - assuming youd like us to acknowledge them... if im around - i will try to re-kudo you then... (and no, i am not being sarcastic. a little-humorous, but if it would help - honestly - then i am all for it.)
gl, h.
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Re: Your thoughts?
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 8:27 AMIf there is no communication there is no real relationship just a pseudo relationship full of theatrics. Find someone that actually cares and work on respecting yourself more so you don't fall for the ones that are full of drama, not in touch with their feelings and because of that are unable to get close. Learn the lesson or repeat it.
