Studies of human beings by sociobiologists say that humans tell the truth mostly when it suits their interests. Most people tell several lies every day, whether you call that shading the truth, omitting it, or altering the facts to suit a more favorable outcome for the teller.
A recent study found teenagers, for example, routinely telling 10-20 lies a day.
Our biological makeup is designed to increase our survivability, meaning inclusive fitness with our group. Studies show people persistently find their group (meaning team, nation, company and so forth) to be the 'good' guys while the other group in competition to be the bad guys. The end result is that you don't even see violations or misdeeds by your group while calling foul on the other guy. You can see this process in national politics, in racial strife, team sports, just about anywhere there are two or more people interacting competitively.
We have objective means to measure the truth. If there's a red apple on my desk, and I call it an orange, then either I'm irrational, lying or maybe color blind with bad eyesight.
My take: it's in my self-interest to tell the truth consistently as it leads to better outcomes with my group and anyone I do business with, however, I am not above shading the truth or omitting or withholding the truth in my self-interest. I believe the same is true for everyone but the actual behavior may vary widely from person to person between very truthful to very deceiful.
I'm aware my biology will persistently bias my perceptions in my favor, and that this is the same for everyone. Also, that I have no way of detecting the 'truthfulness' of another person except through their consistent behavior over time. While I think of myself as a honest person, I'm not above lying if the stakes are high enough (personal survival for example). I also think that's true of everyone.
A recent study found teenagers, for example, routinely telling 10-20 lies a day.
Our biological makeup is designed to increase our survivability, meaning inclusive fitness with our group. Studies show people persistently find their group (meaning team, nation, company and so forth) to be the 'good' guys while the other group in competition to be the bad guys. The end result is that you don't even see violations or misdeeds by your group while calling foul on the other guy. You can see this process in national politics, in racial strife, team sports, just about anywhere there are two or more people interacting competitively.
We have objective means to measure the truth. If there's a red apple on my desk, and I call it an orange, then either I'm irrational, lying or maybe color blind with bad eyesight.
My take: it's in my self-interest to tell the truth consistently as it leads to better outcomes with my group and anyone I do business with, however, I am not above shading the truth or omitting or withholding the truth in my self-interest. I believe the same is true for everyone but the actual behavior may vary widely from person to person between very truthful to very deceiful.
I'm aware my biology will persistently bias my perceptions in my favor, and that this is the same for everyone. Also, that I have no way of detecting the 'truthfulness' of another person except through their consistent behavior over time. While I think of myself as a honest person, I'm not above lying if the stakes are high enough (personal survival for example). I also think that's true of everyone.
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Re: can human beings be honest?
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 10:20 AMWell, humans are in a double-bind situation overall as a tribal-oriented species that will also attack its own. This is rare in nature. On the one hand, your fellow humans are your best and sometimes only support for survival. On the other hand, your fellow humans are your biggest threat to survival (well, maybe the second biggest after germs). So what you've said here:
"I'm not above lying if the stakes are high enough (personal survival for example)."
always applies IMO. In the human psyche, one's personal survival is always on the line to some degree in interactions with other humans. -
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Re: can human beings be honest?
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 10:22 AM>>>This is rare in nature
no it's not. -
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Re: can human beings be honest?
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 10:46 AMWild's right, it's not actually that rare in nature (and humans are part of nature anyway!). Our two closest genetic cousins - chimps and bonobos offer two very different takes on dealing with aggression within their own social group and with others of the same kind but who aren't part of their tribe. Chimps often use violence, bonobos use sex. -
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Re: can human beings be honest?
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 10:55 AMoh I realize now that I unconsciously include the primates with the humans - or is it the humans with the primates? - yes, the primates do it too, most of them
it's a topic for another thread at some point but I really strongly see our similarities to apes and monkeys, in appearance and in culture -
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Re: can human beings be honest?
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 11:07 AMLily, there you go making monkeys out of us all!!!! I, for one, thoroughly approve. (Okay, technically we're apes of some kind but it's less fun to make apes out of us all.)
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Re: can human beings be honest?
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 11:35 AMDiode >> We have objective means to measure the truth. If there's a red apple on my desk, and I call it an orange, then either I'm irrational, lying or maybe color blind with bad eyesight. <<
Yeah, but it's not very interesting to discuss our agreement that the red apple is, in fact, red.
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Re: can human beings be honest?
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 11:52 AM<<A recent study found teenagers, for example, routinely telling 10-20 lies a day. >>
Yeah, that was just the slackers. I'll bet there are some who can top 50 in a day! -
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Unsu...
Re: can human beings be honest?
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 12:29 PM>>Yeah, that was just the slackers. I'll bet there are some who can top 50 in a day!<<
Oh, Easy! and you know if they were told the actual amount of Lies they told in the day...
they'd say "No. I didn't lie!!"
There's 51...
It's so sad seeing people who become so routine with telling lies... they don't even know what they're saying!! -
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Re: can human beings be honest?
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 12:37 PMi'll readily admit to lying as a teenager.
"Oh, Mr Johnson, i had a family emergency so i couldn't finish my paper."
"No mom, we went straight to bed."
"No dad, there were no boys at the party."
"I'm feeling sick, I think i need to leave school early....."
shit yeah.
but i don't think having done so detracts from my ability to be honest.
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