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On June 27, 1986, the International Court of Justice ruled against the Unites States that:
"The United States of America, by certain attacks on Nicaraguan territory in 1983-1984, namely attacks on Puerto Sandino on September 13 and October 14, 1983,
an attack on Corinto on October 10, 1983;
an attack on Potosi Naval Base on January 4 and 5 1984,
an attack on San Juan del Sur on March 7, 1984;
attacks on patrol boats at Puerto Sandino on March 28 and 30 1984;
and an attack on San Juan del Norte on April 9, 1984;
and further by those acts of intervention referred to [above], which involve the use of force, has acted, against the Republic of Nicaragua, in breach of its obligation under customary international law not to use force against another State."
"By laying mines in the internal or territorial waters of the Republic of Nicaragua during the first months of 1984, the United States of America has acted, against the Republic of Nicaragua, in breach of its obligations under customary international law not to use force against another State, not to intervene in its affairs, not to violate its sovereignty and not to interrupt peaceful maritime commerce."
The United States of America was directed to pay reparations for the damage close to 17 billion dollars to Nicaragua.
(en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nica...ed_States)
To this day, the US has not appologized or paid what it ows the Nicaraguans.
"The United States of America, by certain attacks on Nicaraguan territory in 1983-1984, namely attacks on Puerto Sandino on September 13 and October 14, 1983,
an attack on Corinto on October 10, 1983;
an attack on Potosi Naval Base on January 4 and 5 1984,
an attack on San Juan del Sur on March 7, 1984;
attacks on patrol boats at Puerto Sandino on March 28 and 30 1984;
and an attack on San Juan del Norte on April 9, 1984;
and further by those acts of intervention referred to [above], which involve the use of force, has acted, against the Republic of Nicaragua, in breach of its obligation under customary international law not to use force against another State."
"By laying mines in the internal or territorial waters of the Republic of Nicaragua during the first months of 1984, the United States of America has acted, against the Republic of Nicaragua, in breach of its obligations under customary international law not to use force against another State, not to intervene in its affairs, not to violate its sovereignty and not to interrupt peaceful maritime commerce."
The United States of America was directed to pay reparations for the damage close to 17 billion dollars to Nicaragua.
(en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nica...ed_States)
To this day, the US has not appologized or paid what it ows the Nicaraguans.
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Re: International Court of Justice ruled against the US for agression
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 5:11 PM
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Re: International Court of Justice ruled against the US for agression
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 5:13 PMI wouldn't hold my breath for an apology. Only one state has even apologized for slavery! America apologize? Never! When will we apologize to the Phillippines, Iraq, Hawaii, Chinese and Japanese Immigrants (well, at least the Japanese got reparations)? -
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Re: International Court of Justice ruled against the US for agression
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 7:59 PMi wouldnt hold my breath for the apology or the money either. the usa is truly in a fiscal crisis governmentwise. if any city had such a deficit it would just declare bankruptcy and disband. i wonder what (if anything) can ever be done to fix the monetary issues that we have created. (and i recognize that many of them were created during my conservative-dude reagan years)
i dont know much about nicaragua, but oddly im learning little bits and pieces sorta by accident. this is just another interesting tidbit. i wonder how many other countries we have been tried and found guilty and need to make reparations for.
im not even going to hazard a guess as to what the international community would do with our actions in iraq... eeek.
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Re: International Court of Justice ruled against the US for agression
Fri, February 22, 2008 - 8:04 PMThe whole doctrine of "Forward Defence" either in the political context of the Domino Theory or military context of things like "Weapons of Mass Destruction" and intervention in the affairs of others by the CIA are aggressive policies and actions based on the fear (or thought) that something "might* happen..
Why would the US apologise for it the psychology on which much of its foreign military policy since the Cold War ? (and arguably earlier?). This psychology of fear and aggression is what moved it to take military action in Afghanistan and Iraq and in many other Sovereign Countries .
(an this comment is made as an observation about the initial post, without commenting on the merit or otherwise of this policy and what it is based on..)
!Alex! - I would be surprised if there is an apology from the current Administration for the next couple to follow it..
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Re: International Court of Justice ruled against the US for agression
Fri, February 22, 2008 - 11:23 PMWhile I am personally horrified by the behavior of my country's complicity in the attacks made by the Contras... it is not a cut and dried issue as to whether the United States should be bound by the decision of the International Court of Justice. The issues and the opinions, both political and legal, are far too complex to for me to even begin to do justice to in this thread. So rather than muddy the waters with my second rate legal education, I would refer posters to:
Maier, Harold G.* (January 1987). Appraisals Of The ICJ's Decision: Nicaragua V. United States (Merits). The American Society of International Law 81: 77. 81 A.J.I.L. 77
* Professor of Law, Vanderbilt University; Editor in Charge, Special Section.
In which Professor Maier states:
"In view of the importance of this decision and its implications for both the future of international adjudication in general and the future of the International Court of Justice in particular, the Board of Editors voted in April 1986 to devote a special section of the January edition of the Journal to a series of short commentaries on the case. In addition to all members of [*78] the Journal's Editorial Board, more than 20 other scholars were invited to submit comments to be considered for publication. The 16 comments published here represent the response to those solicitations."
Professor Maier goes on to say:
"In view of the importance of this decision and its implications for both the future of international adjudication in general and the future of the International Court of Justice in particular, the Board of Editors voted in April 1986 to devote a special section of the January edition of the Journal to a series of short commentaries on the case. In addition to all members of [*78] the Journal's Editorial Board, more than 20 other scholars were invited to submit comments to be considered for publication. The 16 comments published here represent the response to those solicitations."
I suggest that with such a significant division in the outlook of some of the most learned legal experts in this country, it would be wise to examine the issues on both sides before making one's mind as to the legal obligations of the United States in this case. Note that I am NOT defending the actions of the United States in this matter... I am weighing the learned opinions of some of the most learned legal scholars in this country in a publication which works very hard to present both sides of the issues involved.
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rogue state
Tue, February 26, 2008 - 4:11 PMIsn't this one of the courts that the US refuses to recognise, along with the court of human rights, which it refuses to recognise on the grounds that it doesn't want its soldiers to ever be subject to judgement for war crimes? Funny problem, if you didn't intend to authorise your soldiers to commit war crimes....
Or is it just that this is EC-based?
Actually it has been said that if the US applied for entry into the European Community it would be refused because of its human rights record, particularly on the death penalty. -
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Re: rogue state
Tue, February 26, 2008 - 6:35 PM>> Isn't this one of the courts that the US refuses to recognise, along with the
>> court of human rights, which it refuses to recognise on the grounds that it
>> doesn't want its soldiers to ever be subject to judgement for war crimes?
>
Um... there were no regular US troops involved the actions that were involved in the case. Actually, the grounds are much more involved than that. It is a matter the connection between the contras and the United States and the precedents that could be set. In addition, there was the question of whether the UN Security Counsel could veto enforcement of the court's judgment. Since the US has veto power on the Security Counsel, they used that power to veto enforcement. Whether this is in fact legal, has resulted in a rather deep split omong legal scholars. -
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Re: rogue state
Tue, February 26, 2008 - 6:50 PMI wasn't implying that the ICC had anything to do with the illegal war against the Sandinistas.
I note that both the ICC and the ICJ have been essentially boycotted by this country.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inte...of_Justice
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inte...inal_Court
I still think the refusal to ratify the international criminal and human rights courts of the UN marks the US as a rogue state. -
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Re: rogue state
Tue, February 26, 2008 - 7:25 PM
Well... since this thread is entitled "International Court of Justice ruled against the US for agression" I was really pointing to the fact that the issues involved in the court case and US refusal to be bound by its decision, that is the subject of this thread, is more involved that just an issue of boycott. I did not address the issue of the ICC at all in my response.
If one wishes to understand the issues involved in the boycott of the ICC they are well summarized in this Wikipedia Article:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_and_the_International_Criminal_Court
As to your opinion that the marks the US as a "rogue state" this is, of course your choice. However, the fact that the legal scholars in this country are deeply split in their opinions as to the measures that define both the ICC and the ICJ, would seem to indicate that many learned scholars find the issues far less clear cut.
You are welcome, although in no obligated, to point out where you disagree with those legal scholars who support the US boycott and agree with those who do not... The issues are basically outlined in the wiki article... although there are other sources that provide more in depth descriptions of the issues and their implications...
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Re: rogue state
Tue, February 26, 2008 - 9:55 PMExcellent. Thanks for the pointer, I'll go and read the article and see if I have anything to add.
I am of course, coming from a ROW perspective...
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Re: rogue state
Tue, February 26, 2008 - 10:11 PM1. I am happy to see that once again the American people are more sensible than the Bush administration, in that a majority of Americans polled agree with the idea of the US being part of and subject to the ICC.
2. "Specifically, the ICC is an organization whose precepts go against fundamental American notions of sovereignty, checks and balances, and national independence. It is an agreement that is harmful to the national interests of the United States, and harmful to our presence abroad."
This is interesting. The ICC could only be harmful to the national and international interests of any country if that country reserves the right to trangress against international law in its own national interest. Ahem.
3. The very idea of the ICC is to ensure that countries can be held accountable despite or over their declared national interest. All dictators, for example, declare their policies to be in the national interest. The idea of the ICC is to be able to hold a Hitler, a Pinochet, a Stalin, a Mao, accountable to humanity, even if they have rendered themselves immune from prosecution within their own state.
4. "Without sufficient protection against such frivolous charges, responsible officials may be deterred from carrying out a wide range of legitimate functions across the spectrum, from actions integral to our national defense to peacekeeping missions or interventions in humanitarian crises or civil wars..." I don't think charges of war crimes against the President or Vice President are frivolous. The US under this administration has carried out atrocities including torture, and has invaded another sovereign state for no decent reason. As I said, all criminals in a position of national govt think themselves above the law. The POINT of the ICC is that they be accountable to someone. The prosecutor is not 'unaccountable", s/he is accountable to the UN. The US has recently shown itself, under the present administration, to consider itself above the UN.
5. It is an abiding myth within this country that it undertakes peach-keeping missions around the world and is a guardian of world peace, whereas outside the US, the country is widely seen as violent, agressive and self-interested. I see the US position in this article reflects the myth, by claiming that the US foreign military invovlement is primarily altruistic. To which I say B<coughcoughcough>T.
6. " This could lead the ICC to deem actions taken by the U.S. to be inadequate and to prosecution of U.S. persons by the ICC." Yes. Exhibit A: Guantanamo Bay.
7. The State Department states that the Rome Statute creates a self-initiating prosecutor, answerable to no state or institution other than the Court itself." This is a valid point. But I think it is vastly less likely that the prosecutor would prosecute for his/her own ends than that an individual liable to be prosecuted would think him or herself above the law by virtue of being a dictator or of having absolute power.
8."Critics argue that the court could undermine the work of the United Nations Security Council, which is charged with maintaining peace and security between nations. " Yes, well, from the nation that does this all the time, this is clearly a bogus argument. The US overrides the UN all the time, and has done so notably in the war against Iraq.
9. In as far as the rest is concerned I note that in the main, the Democrats want the US in and the GOP does not. Quel surprise. -
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Re: rogue state
Tue, February 26, 2008 - 11:16 PMuh... yeah... thanks... this certainly answers all of the arguments of legal scholars who agree with the boycott... ;-}
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Re: rogue state
Wed, February 27, 2008 - 4:02 PMAhhhh. I get it, you're the type where, if I don't have a PhD in that subject, I'm not allowed to have an opinion, huh? Well in that case, end of subject. End of democracy too, if we went by your philosophy. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: rogue state
Wed, February 27, 2008 - 6:03 PM>> Ahhhh. I get it, you're the type where, if I don't have a PhD
>> in that subject, I'm not allowed to have an opinion, huh?
>
No... I just cannot abide losers like you who come in here without doing your homework and mistake ignorance and stupidity for democratic opinion thats all...
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Re: rogue state
Sun, March 2, 2008 - 10:00 AMActually her arguments while based in opinion do have some validity.
To blow them off in that manner is simply lazy on your part, or do you have no response to her analysis. Rather you resort to Ad hominium and insult. That too me seems a much higher level of ignorance and stupidity. But what do I know I'm just reading the thread.
Oh yeah thats right... You just posted a link without any of your own analysis.
JSin
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Re: rogue state
Sun, March 2, 2008 - 4:23 PMJust a note. Spiritflame has left the tribe.
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Re: International Court of Justice ruled against the US for agression
Wed, February 27, 2008 - 2:19 PM"US Quietly Breaks UN Treaty" by Leslie Griffith - article from www.commondreams.org/archive...26/7309/
On Friday, at a United Nations meeting in Geneva, the United States broke a series of legal promises. Keeping those promises would have proved extremely embarrassing to the United States government by pointing out that human rights abuses are being committed here at home, and at U.S. military installations abroad.
In 1994 the United States senate ratified the U.N. Convention on Elimination of all forms of racial discrimination promising to provide reports every two years on racial discrimination in the United States. The reports were to include anywhere in the world where the U.S. military is in charge. In other words, the United States military no matter where it was on the globe, agreed to report discrimination. That now includes Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib.
The treaty is the “supreme law of the land” under the U.S. Constitution, article 6, clause 2. Every nation that signed the treaty was charged with giving a national report on such basic areas of discrimination as health care, education, and prison terms. According to the Meiklejohn Civil Liberties Institute and the National Lawyers Guild, the United States on Friday presented a report to the United Nations Committee, never mentioning Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, or the behavior of U.S. corporations working under U.S. military contracts.
Instead, U.S. officials presented facts on the federal level explaining (for instance) how much money was given to education, how much money was supplied to prisons etc. Only four states: Oregon, Illinois, New Mexico and South Carolina were mentioned, and officials in those states who were contacted by local activists, say they never received any phone calls of inquiry by government officials.
At least one hundred human rights groups were represented in Geneva on Friday anxious to hear what the government had to say about racism here at home and abroad.
According to the founder of the Meiklejohn Institute, Ann Fagan Ginger, her organization’s independent report also delivered in Geneva on Friday, provides statistics on racism toward Katrina victims, as well as discrepancies in life expectancy and other health care problems among African Americans, Hispanics, Asian Americans and Native Americans. In regard to U.S. military interrogation centers, Wayne county circuit court judge Claudia Morcom, (ret.) representing the Meiklejohn Institute, told U.N. officials in Geneva what the world now knows.
The basic racism practiced by the U.S. military in both Abu Ghraib and in the detention centers of Guantanamo includes torture, degradation, and illegal detention of hundreds of prisoners in these two facilities based on race, nationality, ethnicity and religions of those arrested.
Meiklejohn founder, attorney Ann Fagan Ginger wrote,”There is no way any U.S. citizen will be safe, even if Caucasian and native born, if the United States government can treat human beings as the U.S. military has treated the men it sent to those two facilities.”
To view the reports, go to www.mcli.org
__________
Leslie Griffith has been a journalist in newspaper, radio and television for 25 years. She is currently working on a book about corporate censorship of the media called Shut-up and Read. -
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Re: International Court of Justice ruled against the US for agression
Wed, February 27, 2008 - 2:58 PMGeeze... no one has even put forth a coherent argument for the topic of this thread and we are now on the third unsupported topic...
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Re: International Court of Justice ruled against the US for agression
Wed, February 27, 2008 - 7:35 PMSeemed an interesting article to me.
I'm sorry if you disagree, but if so, please find your own interesting topics to debate, and don't piss on mine.
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Re: International Court of Justice ruled against the US for agression
Wed, February 27, 2008 - 4:03 PMDamn interesting BryTee, thank you.
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