Once the monster is out, there's no going back

topic posted Mon, April 28, 2008 - 12:43 PM by 
My sweetie and I just had a row (2 days ago). In my mind it wasn't a big, grandiose row but in his mind it apparently was. His response was to first abandon the conversation saying that he didn't have "the time or energy for negative discourse" and later (the next day) to tell me he was beginning to think we shouldn't be together at all on a personal/romantic/sexual level. (We have some professional dealings together that we can't just walk away from at this point).

Anyway, now that he's offered this *threat* of ending the personal I just don't see any way to get back to that place of trust (I thought) we had. If we choose to work through this I will always be aware that this threat, or ultimatum, lurks behind every corner. It all started with something relatively innocuous and insignificant, but it was important enough for me to point out. My pointing it out has apparently caused him to want out. His defensiveness seemed completely disproportionate to the issue at hand, but perhaps he was already looking for a way out? I don't know. Just a few days ago he said he loved me and we discussed him moving in with me (sooner than I would've liked, but his landlord gave him an eviction notice cuz she wants to move back into the house he's been renting for the past 5 years and I thought it might be a good way to get back on his feet, so to speak...even if only temporarily, and I offered him the attic space so we'd still have separate bedrooms).

ANyway, he's since threatened to end it all.

Once that monster is out there, as a threat or ultimatum, there's really no way to gain back the trust. If we go forth and try again I will always be acutely aware that he might take off at the slightest provocation. If I say "good bye" then I won;t be looking back. That's MY m.o.

-K
posted by:
  • Perhaps his reactions stem from another source? Maybe he is nervous about how quickly the relationship is progressing, maybe he is playing old scripts left over from previous relationships, or perhaps he does think the row is a bigger deal than you may have thought it was.

    I hear you though. When people have pulled that sort of thing on me, I have certainly stepped back a few steps and had to re assess the comfort level of the relationship for myself.

    Every relationship seems to have this defining moment where someone seemingly pulls a power play on the other. I guess my only advice ( if you want it) is to go really slow on this one and try not to respond with a emotional knee jerk reaction to his possible knee jerk reaction to whatever it is you all rowed about.

    You do have some fabulous hair though, and that pretty much can cure all.
  • Sounds like you managed to hit a trigger you didn't see coming (and is normally the case for those who hit the trigger the first time) hitting a trigger can be disconcerting cause as you said "it wasn't a big, grandiose row, but in his mind it apparently was" my experience that's the very description of a trigger. Just to give you an example of my triggers, if a female friends says she thinks of me like a brother, then the whole relationship is definite danger of ending right then.

    So deep breath.

    if you want to create the space to see if you can/want to make the relationship work, you'll need some calm energy and time to pick apart that trigger (whether or not he knows that trigger is an related but too difficult to answer question) and figure out what and how it affects you and your needs in the relationship. remember to try and keep it clear that you are focusing on figuring out how that trigger affects you and your relationship, not on fixing him and his trigger :)

    hth

    taz
    • ooh. been there. hell, i think i'm there(ish) right now, in fact.

      i agree with the above two responses... i'd say take a little time and space,
      even just a few days, to cool down and collect your thoughts/feelings... and
      hopefully he'll do the same... and then talk again.

      i've been on both sides of that one and tried again - either i've said 'i don't
      think i can do this' and then changed my mind, or the person i'm with has
      done so... in my experience there is *definitely* that tentativeness in wanting
      to trust again - i think you have to be able to talk it out and come out of it
      feeling confident (REALLY deeply confident, not i'm-pretty-sure confident)
      that a bridge has been crossed and whatever that trigger was is now out in
      the open to change.

      and yeah. the hair.
      it makes me feel better myself, for chrissakes. awesomeness.
      • well, the hair is at least a 6 month commitment! Can't say the relationship is, though I had hopes.

        -K
        • Oh, and the hair requires monthly *check ups*. Make sure it's healthy and thriving and to replace any lost extensions. Too bad relationships don't come with the same protocol.

          *sigh*

          I'm kinda numb to it all at the moment. Shell shocked or something. I'm sure I'll become a blubbering idiot at some point here pretty soon, but I'll do my best to censor that from the world at large.

          Thanks.

          -K
  • My ex used that very tactic whenever I disagreed with him, I eventually learned that it was a manipulative manouver he used to get his way. He never really had any intention to walk away. After many years of this happening on a regular basis, I finally told him I was ending the relationship - and did. I'd never used it as a threat and he knew it. (the only reason I stayed that long was because I was afraid to leave - for many reasons - reasons which finally, didn't stop me)

    I agree, it undermines trust in the relationship and in one's partner's willingness to work through difficulties. Without that trust you don't have much. It's a tough thing to deal with - especially when you love the person playing these emotional games. In my view, folks who throw down the the "I'll leave" card, after a relatively minor dispute, will continue to use this kind of emotional manipulation as long as they're allowed to do so. You may have to simply communicate that if there is to be a relationship, there has to be a commitment to working through problems without such threats.
  • However you do (or don’t) respond will condition his future behavior.

    If, for example, you drop this issue in response to his threat, assuming that is what he wants, he will almost certainly use the strategy again, because people tend to repeat what has gotten them what they wanted, regardless of whether or not it is good for the long term.
  • It may be unfair for you to categorize what he said as a threat or ultimatum. Since you don't know what lies behind the button you pushed, it could be that he was serious about breaking up, not realizing that what you said was not intended to be as harsh as he thought it was. It may also be that once you both know where the other was coming from, that he'll feel like a n00b and regret having said it in the first place.
    • it sure is an interesting coincidence, this happening at a time when he's losing his stable long-term home, and obviously financially unprepared - needing to get back on his feet financially, as you said - amd being offered space in your house (but not really living together), and the offer would of course be contingent on a few unspoken and maybe even currently unknown things, even if there's a statement that it wouldn't be . . . like, for example, not bringing other women to that attic room, stuff like that.

      So it's possible that he feels insecure and untrusting in general, emasculated, and powerless to deal with circumstances, and that might make him impatient, irritable, hypersensitive to criticism, needing all his energy to come up with a soluion acceptable *to him* --- and thus both overreacting and coming out with this threat. That he might exercise one of the few powers he does have - to break up with you. A bit of balancing, psychically.

      Isn't this the guy who swept you off your feet a few months ago?? Well, you are learning how he handles adversity, how much he needs stability, and how mature he is about ensuring his stability. You guys might well separate for awhile if he really doesn't want to do the quasi-move in thing. Is it possible for you to just wait and see what he himself comes up with as a plan? Not push -- your offer is already on the table.
      • what Lily said at the beginning of her post reminds me - he IS
        going through some stuff right now...

        i'd be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt that he's just
        freaking out and will figure it out one way or another, with that
        in mind...
        • Lily makes some good points.
          • <<That he might exercise one of the few powers he does have - to break up with you. A bit of balancing, psychically.>>

            Or might be looking for a bit of affirmation of himself and the relationship because of his current insecurities..

            I know folk can get a bit weird under stress - but it is a pretty immature thing to say (especially as the threat or for attention).. and if he does not do a back pedal over it pretty quickly - and if it is not simply one of those stupid things we can all say - I would be asking yourself if you are happy to be emotionally blackmailed like this or alternatively refuse to give someone that power over you.. Relationships are never "perfect" - but I would not be in one that was seriously faulted - or with someone I did not totally trust and respect - and who did not respect me.. this emotional blackmail would threaten both of these things for me.. My approach is that I have to be strong enough to risk what I have (the relationship as it stands) if I want something better (what the relationship could be). I would be reflecting, and mentally composing what my response would be and why - and communicate it in the clearest fashion..

            Is this a rare symptom of self doubt on his part, a manipulation technique, or an effort to have you end a relationship which he is not honest enough to end himself ?

            <<His response was to first abandon the conversation saying that he didn't have "the time or energy for negative discourse" >>

            All well and good.. but what he really was saying was that he was not brave or committed or sensitive or strong enough to listen to you. Indeed it might be said he did not have "the time or energy" for you.. We cant expect people to be superhuman.. but if this is a standard response to your need to communicate (negative) feelings or thoughts.. Dump him.

            Cheers

            Abbey
            :)
            (Always with the trivia www.uexpress.com/dearabby/...lease.html )
      • l'm with Lily on this one. lf you both get through this and find yourself on smoother ground, l think the simplest solution is to sit down and just say, "Hey, when you said this, it triggered some fear in me that this may be your M.O. every time we argue. Can we agree not to make a statement like this lightly, and if either of us is considering breakup, to bring it up as a serious issue for discussion (hopefully with a goal of compromise and resolution), rather than an emotional statement in the midst of angry outburst?"....or something to that effect. This type of thing happens all the time in relationships; hell, l've done it myself, and at the time, l really *wasn't* sure where l wanted to go from there, but the timing and delivery were all wrong (and definitely unfair) on my part. l was fortunate enough to recognize that on my own and refrain from doing it again, but sometimes, we're not always aware of that, especially if we're feeling plenty uncertain to begin with. Maybe this will help, maybe not...but if he's not aware of what your response is, l think it's fair for you to point that out in a tactful manner while still making it a clear boundary.
        • i really like the way you've phrased this ali (and hi!! for some reason i haven't been seeing you around much) - i do think it's immature to say things like this in arguments. I really watch my own mouth when fighting - so what I do say, i'm actually prepared to live with. And actually mean.

          i've been thinking more about his reaction -- maybe he is testing the waters by throwing out the threat. it's a shock to the system when you lose a long-term home where you planned to stay put - a profound shock sometimes. i bought this house because, tho' it was hard to do and maintaining it means i had to take this job - but i never wanted my home to be vulnerable to a landlord's whims again -- and after 10 blissful years on lots of land, i cried all thru the closing, as i was losing the place i loved so much and going to much less than what i had. but autonomy - now i have it. Anyway, after having his house jerked out from under him, he may mistrust the reality of his relationships too, and he's probably also seriously pissed off - and maybe his reaction might be a preemptive breakup --- no matter how much he really wants you, kryssa!
          • Well, as it turns out there was a seed of truth to just about everyone's response here.

            He is feeling overwhelmed and emasculated to some degree..."powerless" was the word he used. That couped with him having phone issues and 95% of our communication taking place in instant messages was really the largest part of the problem. When I said [this] he heard [that] because of the emotional and mental space he's in right now. Once he resolved his phone issues--and it turns out he was semi-stranded in the mountains for about 24 hours during this ordeal and I *thought* he was avoiding me when in fact he was wearing plastic bags over his sandals and trying to shovel his way out of a snow bank with a large stick and wearing his skinny son's pants that only came up to his thighs to keep warm til daylight-- well, let's just say that we finally figured it all out and it was a series of misunderstandings.

            We talked for 4 hours yesterday and had a chance to really explore our personal boundaries with each other. it was good. Great, even. very affirming. I'm still not happy with his *threat*, but says it wasn't so much a threat as a *beginning to wonder if he'd gotten involved with another Dr. Jeckyl/ Ms. Hyde personality*. Our conversation seems to have fixed that and it turns out that our respective baggage/ triggers/ buttons were precisely where we misinterpreted each other. (duh...go figure)

            Thanks though. It was an unexpected bumpy ride there for a bit but we both learned quite a bit about ouselves and each other int he process. He also made it clear that he adores me and loves me and, though hesitant and scared about my offer, will not dismiss it outright as he see it has merit.

            Thanks!

            -K
            • My boyfriend and I have a strict rule to NOT communicate anything of emotional importance over IMs or text messages. Too much gets lost in translation.

              However, I am glad you and your boy have talked things through, and Bummer about him having to wear his skinny son's pants.

              If I had a nickel every time I heard that story...... I mean who HASN'T had to wear a skinny kid's pants one time or another.....
              • "My boyfriend and I have a strict rule to NOT communicate anything of emotional importance over IMs or text messages. Too much gets lost in translation. "

                Interesting. I have found I have can have deeper Emotional expression via IM and text than in voice. Mostly because I can craft and to a great extent am forced to craft EXACT wording of what I mean without the added pressure of having to have a response immediately to keep a conversation that's face to face. if it takes 10 minutes and a search among possible words that shade one way or another, that's really only possible in a text response. I often say that I don't know what I feel till I articulate it.

                this may or may not mean a deeper emotional connection for the other person however

                taz
  • -K - Maybe he feels the only power he has in the relationship is removing himself? Or it could be that he's got something "negative" within himself (or something he knows you won't like much) he's trying to hide by avoiding the "negative"? (Sorry, I don't have much patience with that kind of thing, particularly if the negativity they don't have time for is actually just reality and all the negativity towards reality is really coming from them...but I'm digressing towards a rant here!) It sounds like you may have given him a level of trust he hadn't yet earned and perhaps doesn't deserve, and that he may not actually be able to cope with the reality of a relationship and what is required once it moves beyond infatuation. Or not, of course! Either way, good luck figuring out what's best for you at this time.
  • Hey K,

    I dunno how I missed this. =-/

    <In my mind it wasn't a big, grandiose row but in his mind it apparently was. His response was to first abandon the conversation saying that he didn't have "the time or energy for negative discourse" and later (the next day) to tell me he was beginning to think we shouldn't be together at all>

    When a man has learned all his life to have situations handled, and then things fall apart, his perspective changes. He goes into "self-preservation" mode (a very selfish looking mode from the outside perspective). Personally, I've been there, done that on both sides.

    When my last business had failed, then I'd finished school and was studying for a state exam and licensing, and was about to lose my home, I was feeling fearful on many levels, short tempered, anxious, nervous, and really had no desire to hear any persons challenges/negativity of any sort. no matter whom it was. My plate was full. When a FWB came to me and began telling me about her life challenges I had to stop her and tell her the same thing. I don't want to talk about this. I'm sorry but my plate is full. She was offended at first but now she understands MY perspective and feelings. A person has to get backed into a corner pretty well (super scared) to feel this way and I sure did. I felt I had no way out.

    She learned that she had a part in it by not asking how I "really felt" if I was acting differently. .... She didn't know how scared I really was. That my emotional plate was over-flowing with fear. That, quite literally, the only thing I could listen to at the time had to be solution oriented towards MY issues. Or a simple hug and a "I'm here for you if you need me". Just being around people helped but there was always that anxiety brewing just below the surface. Survival mode sucks to be in.

    Learning about our partners is key. Someone mentioned hot buttons. I call those items our soft, white underbellies. Everyone has them. I'm sure you didn't want to make your partner feel overwhelmed. You simply didn't know his emotional state. It was a temporary situation for him and he not normally this way. I'm sure you wouldn't want him doing the same to you when you were down. Stupid to even say....
    Support for each other, especially when each other is down, will give you both a long and satisfying relationship. IMHO of course. LOL ;-)

    <Roger is joyfully hopping off of his soapbox now>
    <hmmm, maybe it's time for me to begin another LTR.... =-) >

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