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So, my 7 y/o son came to me a few weeks ago asking what the difference was between vampires and zombies. I did my best to explain. Vampires bite one of your major arteries and suck out your blood and may or may not choose to make you one of them. Zombies, on the other hand, bite you anywhere they can in order to render you helpless while they suck out your brain and neither you nor they have any control over whether you become one of them. In the end, the recipients are both dead...or, undead.
He seemed content with this explanation.
But then my 7 y/o daughter (twins) came to me just last week asking about the differences between the "Swine Flu" and the "Mexican Flu". She asked, "Can pigs make me sick?" I tried to give her both the long and short answer. I said, "Pigs can only make you sick if you don't cook them long enough. They need to reach at least 160 degrees Farenheit internally". So, she asked me if she needs to do the same for Mexicans.
Thank you mass media. You're not making deconstruction easy, are you?
-K
He seemed content with this explanation.
But then my 7 y/o daughter (twins) came to me just last week asking about the differences between the "Swine Flu" and the "Mexican Flu". She asked, "Can pigs make me sick?" I tried to give her both the long and short answer. I said, "Pigs can only make you sick if you don't cook them long enough. They need to reach at least 160 degrees Farenheit internally". So, she asked me if she needs to do the same for Mexicans.
Thank you mass media. You're not making deconstruction easy, are you?
-K
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Re: A little help here?
Tue, May 5, 2009 - 10:43 PMPigs can pass the flu to humans since the current H1N1 flu can infect both. Your daughters would have to be sneezed on by the pigs. In terms of meat, human meat should be cooked thoroughly, though since we are exposed to so many toxins by adulthood your child should only eat other children. -
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Re: A little help here?
Wed, May 6, 2009 - 1:14 PMMexicans need to be cooked to 160 degrees or til the juice runs clear. A little lime, and you are good to go.
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Re: A little help here?
Wed, May 6, 2009 - 1:47 PMA sprinkle of cilantro is nice too. -
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Re: A little help here?
Wed, May 6, 2009 - 1:51 PMYou do have to avoid the sombrero however,as it is very chewy and prone to give people indigestion if you are not used to it. Its an acquired taste, really. -
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Re: A little help here?
Wed, May 6, 2009 - 1:53 PMI think that is supposed to be like the parsley on the plate. Just for show.
But maybe it is a palate cleaner....I'm not sure.
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Re: A little help here?
Wed, May 6, 2009 - 6:46 PMYou know, Elaine, I had (what turns out to be well-founded) suspicions about your invitation to come soak in your hot tub.
That 160 degree, cast-iron hot tub. With herbs and vegetables in it.
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Re: A little help here?
Wed, May 6, 2009 - 3:12 PMOk first to eliminate some misinformation.
The new "swine flu" is interesting and disconcerting because unlike the older virus it is a combination of swine avian and human flu. You will get it from other humans or interaction with live pigs that are infected. It is not from the meat. Pork and the beloved Bacon are not affected and are fine to consume.
The "Mexican flu" is what the arabic and jewish countries wanted to call it because they felt the name was an affiliation with what they consider unclean.. The noble and tasty pig. I don't see what the problem is since they have no appreciation for such a fine meat animal... No problem more bacon and porkchops for me.
Now to the cooking issues. What you can get from pork that has not been frozen to o degrees F is trichinosis which is a parasitic worm. All pork sold in the US now is required to be frozen to that temp and held 24 hours. Because of these changes the USDA issues new cooking guidelines of 145 degrees internal. This is just a bit past medium. So we can now enjoy our pork products tender and juicy rather than shoe leather. So please quit cooking it to 160. They are far better when they don't have the texture of sawdust laden shoe leather.
Now since the flu can be caught from humans and Mexicans. The problem is the slaughter of the mariachi. For protection when you kill your mexican for dinner be sure to wear a mask and wash your hands before and after. Take a bit more care in the removal of the head and respiratory system since this seems to be the primary mode of transmission. While I do not know what the USDA guideline is I would likely cook to 145 internal. This would greatly depend on the age and fat content. The fattier the meat the more tender it is so well marbles meat should be done to basic internal while stringier pieces should be done with a combination cooking method like braising and or stewing.
I hope this helps
JSin -
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Unsu...
Re: A little help here?
Wed, May 6, 2009 - 5:00 PMI actually knew that you can't get swine flu frm eating pork...I mentioned the pork cooking times to my daughter because that's pretty much the only manner in which either of us would come into contact with a pig. Now, we spend our fair share of time with live horses, goats, cows and even the occasional chicken, but no one we know has any live pigs.
But, I'll try out that cilantro tip. Maybe a squeeze of fresh lime juice.
-K -
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Re: A little help here?
Wed, May 6, 2009 - 6:56 PMHowever. One can't help but find amusing all the sensationalism about pigs.
This would obviously not be an international epidemic if this flu were NOT being passed from human to human. Are the perpetrators of this hysteria under the impression that a legion of pigs with frequent flyer miles are jet-setting this disease around?
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Re: A little help here?
Wed, May 6, 2009 - 6:00 PMJsin, where did you get the information about the pork and cooking? I need it to prove a point with someone!
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Re: A little help here?
Wed, May 6, 2009 - 8:38 PMI have the information from my Culinary Serv Safe training I am taking now. It is based on HAACP guidelines which is the program created by NASA to make sure our astronauts don't get food poisoning in space.
All ground meats this would include pork and mexicans is 155 for 15 seconds
Solid cuts like chops and the like are 145 for 15 seconds
Roast pork and Hispanics 145 for 15 minutes
Here is a PDF with those guidlines
media.wiley.com/product_da...1781827.pdf
The reduction is gone over here: all cases since 1999 have beed non comercial swine and game meats. No certain cases tied to the eating of Mexican
This is a report from a while ago but it goes into it
www.cdc.gov/MMWR/PDF/ss/ss5206.pdf
JSin
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Re: A little help here?
Wed, May 6, 2009 - 8:42 PM<<Roast pork and Hispanics 145 for 15 minutes >>
Is that any Hispanic or just Mexicans? -
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Re: A little help here?
Wed, May 6, 2009 - 8:47 PMI think in general unless you have a well proven population you are sourcing from. Isolated proven stock could be cooked a bit rarer. I would recommended having several samples lab tested first to validate safety. As a precaution I likely wouldn't serve any Hispanic far below that 145 threshold though YMMV
JSin -
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Re: A little help here?
Thu, May 7, 2009 - 8:02 AMSo you're telling me that an Argentine, a Venezuelan and a Mexican would all be cooked just about the same?
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Re: A little help here?
Wed, May 6, 2009 - 11:02 PMI have wrapping corn husks around you for days, Anne. When were you going to figure out why?
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Re: A little help here?
Thu, May 7, 2009 - 9:41 AMJSin - Actually, it's a bit more complicated than that! Swine flu existed before the current swine flu (it was previously called the Spanish Flu and was behind the huge pandemic in the early 1900s in Spain...one reason the WHO was so over reactive, though there are others). The current flu (from what I've read) seems to by a mix of swine, avian and human flu. It was incubated and created in humans (who have now given it to pigs...it's us dirty humans who are the source in this case!) Now, there seems to be quite a bit of evidence that this flu was incubated/created in humans in a town in Mexico where commercial/factory pig farming goes on (and the American company in question got in lots of trouble in the US for violations, which is why they moved to Mexico - the citizens complained for years about weird illnesses and nothing was done). It seems likely that unsanitary conditions caused by the factory farming gave rise to the creation of a new strain in humans (avian flu is similarly related with too much human contact with animal waste, there's some rumors that it was also caused by factory farming and not small farmers). At first with a flu we pick up from animals it can often only transmit between animal and human, it's when a flu mutates and can be transmitted human to human that health officials start freaking out. They're very simple viruses so they can mutate very, very quickly. In Canada, there are now very stringent testing and containment of animals diseases (from mad cow to avian and swine flu). In the US, where industry tends to trump public interest (and most of the market is internal so there isn't the threat of trade bans), these kinds of things often get brushed under the rug.
Ultimately this is a type-A influenza that, so far, hasn't even killed as many people as regular human flu. (Thousands of people die from regular flu every year - usually the old, young and immune suppressed). The reason why there's a freak out about a flu like this is because it's hard to tell what it is and is going to become - and we now travel so much that any disease spreads incredibly quickly. Planning for these kinds of health emergencies has always gone on by public health officials.
We can also get diseases from our pets and other animals. As you point out JSin, one reason why so many religions ban eating pork is because pigs are a lot like humans biologically so we can easily pick up diseases from them (it's also why pork is always meant to be well cooked).
Of course, it IS kinda weird that so much negative stuff is going on around Mexico these days - from the drug wars on the US border to shutting down all of Mexico City and killing the tourism trade via this flu panic. Soylent Mexicano anyone? -
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Re: A little help here?
Thu, May 7, 2009 - 9:58 AMIncidentally, Tamiflu is pretty useless (despite the snopes thingy, many doctors also think it's pretty useless). It's not a very good antiviral to start with (not as effective as the ones used for herpes, for instance), it needs to be taken before infection/symptoms really show and even then it's not great. It's useless to use it once the infection has manifested (and may even be harmful to some people).
Of course, there are people making lots of money from selling Tamiflu to governments in bulk (and keeping it in stock, it's shelf life is about 5 years if I remember correctly). Donal Rumsfeld has made lots of money via his stock in Gilead Sciences which makes and sells Tamiflu.
www.snopes.com/politics/m...tamiflu.asp
The general thinking amongst epidemiologists is that we're actually long overdue for a pandemic disease so it's wise to prepare for one (I agree). If a lethal pandemic did arise we'd be dealing with very high death tolls, issues around disease containment and disposal of infected bodies, social breakdown since the "human infrastructure" would break down (people not able to do their jobs, etc). This leads to lack of resources and food, etc. On the up side, we've actually got very good and tracking and containing disease - there's both good and bad aspects to globalization and efficient transmission of information. Of course, all that organizing makes the conspiracy theorists who don't understand much about disease and public health freak out. Though, of course, there are also cynics who profit from this kind of thing and aren't above manipulating public policy for their personal gain. -
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Re: A little help here?
Thu, May 7, 2009 - 10:16 AMWe ,at least, know what is trying to mutate and kill us, unlike the middle ages when every wave of the Black Plague, the Sweating Sickness, and various other horrible diseases left people terrified in their ignorance.
Also, I think flu viruses and the like are excellent proof that evolution is in action everyday. We can shove the virus into the faces of the creationists/ID people as proof.
I also still wonder if viruses are somehow sentient beings. I mean, this how banding together with other viruses to create a whole new virus? That seems diabolical and thought out. Something I would do if'n I were a virus. -
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Re: A little help here?
Thu, May 7, 2009 - 1:05 PM"We ,at least, know what is trying to mutate and kill us, unlike the middle ages when every wave of the Black Plague, the Sweating Sickness, and various other horrible diseases left people terrified in their ignorance. Hmmm, Elaine flu....it would have to be some kind of laughing disease!"
Heh, human nature doesn't change much. Back then it was the devil out to get us and now it's the NWO...Satan by any other name would smell as acrid! (Or at least that's what they say Satan smells like.) People aren't very good with accepting "shit happens because it happens" and not taking everything personally. "They're/It's out to get us!" is a popular human theme that stands the test of time (along with "It's not my fault, it's his/hers/its fault").
I can only imagine what kind of giggling mess of goo the Elaine virus would render those with weak immune systems who caught it.
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Re: A little help here?
Thu, May 7, 2009 - 2:20 PMYep am aware of it. Like I said in a prior post the virus itself is fascinating and complex. Definitely to me no more dangerous than other nasties like the typical annual flue permutation, meningitis and the like. I actually find it interesting that people are freaking out.
Generally really it is the filthy fucking humans that are the larger spreaders of pathogens. The earlier "swine flu"/spanish flu is one I wonder if it originated with humans.
But back to cooking Hispanics to answer Yuni's query.
If there is an airport and international travel then yes by all means fully cook to 145. It is the right thing to do for your family and customers.
JSin -
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Re: A little help here?
Thu, May 7, 2009 - 6:00 PMJsin, I drank the water my Mexican was packed in. Am I going to die? -
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Re: A little help here?
Thu, May 7, 2009 - 6:07 PMDid you get canned Mexican? -
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Unsu...
Re: A little help here?
Thu, May 7, 2009 - 6:40 PMIf not canned Mexican, then perhaps canned Mexican Truffle (aka "corn smut")?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_smut
Now there's some good eatin!
-K -
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Re: A little help here?
Thu, May 7, 2009 - 7:44 PMFor a first-hand account, scroll down to Cuitlacoche.
www.thesneeze.com/mt-archiv...eat_it.php -
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Re: A little help here?
Thu, May 7, 2009 - 8:37 PMThat is far too disturbing.
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Re: A little help here?
Thu, May 7, 2009 - 11:16 PMElaine asked:
>"Jsin, I drank the water my Mexican was packed in. Am I going to die? "<
I am sorry YES. Never ever drink the water your mexican is packed in... it is not a food borne pathogenic issue but rather a food borne intoxication issue much like Botulism
You will be missed darlin.
JSin -
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Re: A little help here?
Thu, May 7, 2009 - 11:57 PMam sorry YES. Never ever drink the water your mexican is packed in... it is not a food borne pathogenic issue but rather a food borne intoxication issue much like Botulism <<
Oh damn. I guess I should've not eaten the worm either then. -
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Re: A little help here?
Fri, May 8, 2009 - 12:54 AM
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Re: A little help here?
Thu, May 28, 2009 - 8:57 PMOh wait! Could it be this thread that is the racial offender? Surely not! That would be just plain silly! -
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Re: A little help here?
Thu, May 28, 2009 - 9:20 PMExtreme Sarcasm.
I dunno, some people are tragically born without a sense of humor. Others are so thoroughly conditioned to the political correcting of America that anytime they see a joke which requires a cultural reference to be made, they get a big ol' scratchy corncob up their ass.
But sometimes, it's just that they're just stupid. -
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Re: A little help here?
Thu, May 28, 2009 - 9:49 PMooo Anne, yr so sexy when you get all Socially Darwinistic!
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Re: A little help here?
Mon, June 1, 2009 - 3:30 PMomg I haven't peeked into this tribe in FOREVER and was just pokin around - this thread is providing me with quite a few much-needed belly laughs. thanks folks!
