Had a conversation today with a Tibetan Monk, and the final thought was that Tibetan Buddhism may (only MAY) diminish considerably when the old Lamas from Tibet finally hit the grave . . . taking their knowledge with them . . . Will it really matter to you? ?
posted by:
Sam=Sam
Australia
  • Nah.

    Not any more than when Jesus, Mohammed, Jim Jones, Buddha, or L. Ron Hubbard died.
    Mainly because I have not found any particular value in their teachings that I couldn't or didn't get elsewhere. And that's a good thing. It means that the ideas they touted are vastly bigger and more enduring than the people.
  • Unsu...
     
    I know this is OT, but honestly, this tribe is kind of turning into a train wreck lately IMO.

    That's cool, I like it.
    • This tribe is cyclical. It always has been. We go through stages of extreme loving and extreme intelligence, extreme ranting crazy people being the only ones who post, extreme humor, extreme politics, extreme religious discussions, extreme spirituality and extreme atheism, extreme whining, extreme racial friction discussions, extreme sexuality discussions, extreme hostility, extreme discussions on honesty and the truth and the truth vs honesty and which one of them would win in a WWF smack down and then discussions about what beer or cocktail we love most.
      It all comes around eventually.
      • And it's summer, so peeps are out doing things.
        • >>And it's summer, so peeps are out doing things.<<

          True Dat.

          The Chinese have recently annointed a slightly lesser Lama (also a reincarnated position) to the Dali who was picked by government officials and rubber stamped by a rogue monk or two. It stands to reason they will try this when the The Dalai Lama goes. Might kill the lineage, but there is plenty of record of teachings and knowledge for people to waork with.

          Even though I'm an atheist and a person who tends to not beleive in mainstream spiritual leaders I have always been a big fan of the Dalai Lama. He's humorous, non-judgemental, beleive in science, and is willing to question authority. He's OK by me!
          • Paper, gunpowder, fireworks, printing, refined herbalism, and the Great Wall - that's a start.

            I (*love*) the 14th Dalai Lama - what a beautiful, bright, sparkling soul!!!
            • Misha - Yeah, the various Chinese cultures are very rich and they invented all kinds of things we take for granted...noodles, for instance. Where would we be without noodles? (Down one Spaghetti Monster at least!)

              I too appreciate the Dalai Lama - he's an intelligent and thoughtful man, and seems to have a pretty good sense of humor. It will be interesting to see how things in Tibet play out since he's advocating a middle path while many Tibetans don't want to settle for less than total autonomy, and he's also facing attacks and power struggles within Tibetan Buddhism.
              • www.religioustolerance.org/hom_budd.htm

                <<<Comments by the Dalai Lama:

                The Dalai Lama is the leader of the Tibetan people and is revered by millions of Buddhists worldwide. At a press conference in 1997-JUN, he commented: "From a Buddhist point of view [lesbian and gay sex]...is generally considered sexual misconduct".

                This belief is not based on the partners being of the same gender. In his book "Beyond Dogma," he has written that "homosexuality, whether it is between men or between women, is not improper in itself. What is improper is the use of organs already defined as inappropriate for sexual contact." Tibetan Buddhism prohibits oral, manual and anal sex for everyone - both homosexuals and heterosexuals. However, these restrictions refer only to members of the Buddhist faith. 4 From "society's viewpoint," same-sex relations can be "of mutual benefit, enjoyable and harmless." He supports human rights "regardless of sexual orientation."

                At a subsequent meeting with gay and lesbian representatives, he expressed the "willingness to consider the possibility that some of the teachings may be specific to a particular cultural and historic context." Dawa Tsering, spokesperson for the Office of Tibet commented: "His Holiness opposes violence and discrimination based on sexual orientation. He urges respect, tolerance, compassion and the full recognition of human rights for all." 5

                An article in Newsweek stated that "Although he has affirmed the dignity and rights of gays and lesbians, he has condemned homosexual acts as contrary to Buddhist ethics." 8

                The Dalai Lama was interviewed by CBC News at the time of his visit to Canada during 2007-NOV. Near the end of his interview he was asked whether Buddhism condones love between two men or two women. He replied that Buddhists reject this. Genuine Buddhist practitioners, like Christians, condemn same-sex behavior as sexual misconduct. "So, [it is] not permissible, not allowed." 11

                His understanding of Christian views on homosexuality appears to be in error. While conservative Christians generally consider all same-sex behavior to be sexual misconduct, most liberal and some mainline Christians accept same-sex behavior between persons in a loving, committed relationship to be life-affirming and moral.

                The CBC web site published 77 comments by listeners. Many touched upon his homosexual comments. One was posted on 2007-NOV-05 at 12:18 AM by a Buddhist couple David and Luc Chateauneuf-Kurzer

                "The Dalai Lama's comments on same-sex love could be considered by some to be taken out of context. However, the words he used are very familiar to us and simply represent an outmoded form of exclusion that is common to most religions. We would suggest that he continues to talk the 'party line' rather than evolve Buddhism's view of non-heterosexual love. Some would say that Buddhism has no place in the bedroom. We would then respond that any comment on sexuality is inappropriate. Either way, social justice for Buddhist gays and lesbians is not encouraged by the words captured in his interview. And social justice is so much of what His Holiness advocates. This does not stop us from following the Buddhist path because we are used to mainstream religious exclusion. It is part of our spiritual path to change that by being ourselves wherever we go. And in our fourteen years together, that is exactly what we have done. So we will continue our work to further the cause for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered Buddhists."<<<<


                I found this interesting. NOw I like me some Dalai Lama, but it was kind of refreshing to find something I could disagree with him about.

                ANyway, posted and snipped out for your own musing upon.
                • From what I can tell there aren't many religions that don't have a weird view of sex.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Yooneee! - Yeah, good point. A lot of Westerners just tend to see Buddhism as being analogous to the hippy peace/love/free sex thing when it can actually be pretty fundamentalist in some forms - even the Dalai Lama pushes a version of Buddhism in the West that he knows will appeal to Westerners.
                    • What Has the Dalai Lama done?

                      Tue, August 19, 2008 - 10:25 AM
                      I am not Buddhist except from an experience level of falling into a vast Awareness spoken about by them . . . Particularly Dzogchen . . . (the writer has inadvertently have been doing since 1968). . .

                      The experience (The writer has experienced), parallels the teachings of the Buddha’s . . . (and the rest of all the masters that have recently past my eyes,) . . . so the teachings will never be lost for any length of time . . . due to the Awareness the Buddha's speak of, that flows thru people from all walks of life, with NO knowledge or following of any path done knowingly by other people . . .

                      BUT
                      It takes a skill (presently beyond this writer) to be able to write the experience in words that are easily available to others, for their own understanding of it . . .

                      One CAN only Love the humour along the way . . .

                      In Australia it’s the COOOOOLDEST driest winter in decades . . .

                      What the Chinese hav done seems to parallel the genocide that seems to be perpetrated by the armament sellers, coupled to the barbarity Human Beings seem to unleash from time to time . . . not fun . . . but Freedom exists in the hearts of the oppressed, regardless of fear, torture, and death . . .

                      I support the Dalai Lama . . . He’s a Cool Guy . . .

                      The Dalai Lama also said, that a Buddhist Conference needs to happen whereby the texts of the Buddhist Culture could be brought in line with accepted scientific consensus . . .

                      The Dalai Lama wrote

                      “ . . . there are a billion world systems like ours, with limitless billions of those. In some of them the teaching is newly being introduced; in some it is waning. The teaching continually remains somewhere at all times. The Buddha’s never disappear, and the teaching never vanishes.”

                      [Pg. 213 ‘How to Practice the way to a Meaningful Life’
                      Pub. Rider. ISBN 0-7126-1095-2
                      © 2002 by His Holiness The Dalai Lama and Jeffrey Hopkins]
                    • Re: Whhave the Chinese [in their Wisdom ! ! ] done?

                      Tue, August 19, 2008 - 11:05 AM

                      >>>Yooneee! - Yeah, good point. A lot of Westerners just tend to see Buddhism as being analogous to the hippy peace/love/free sex thing when it can actually be pretty fundamentalist in some forms - even the Dalai Lama pushes a version of Buddhism in the West that he knows will appeal to Westerners<<<<


                      Exactly. Lots of people think the Dalai Lama is like the embodiment of all that is good and godly. Whereas while he is a very cool guy and probably walk his talk, he is still a human with the human prejudices and judgments we all tend to have.
                      • What does the Dalai Lama do?

                        Tue, August 19, 2008 - 1:21 PM
                        A point is reached in Awareness where even when annoyed, outraged, humiliated, etc . . . APPEARS to be happening to said monk . . . in the mind of said Monk may be an Awareness, which reveals that same experience to the Monk from the vantage point where so-called " . . . human prejudices and judgments we all tend to have. " may not (in ACTUALITY) be happening AT ALL . . .
                      • Elaine - "Whereas while he is a very cool guy and probably walk his talk, he is still a human with the human prejudices and judgments we all tend to have."

                        Totally, one of the reasons I like him is that he doesn't pretend not to be human. And, not surprisingly, like all people who don't get any he's got some pretty unrealistic and unnatural ideas about sex (apparently his love of science doesn't extend to biology or he'd recognize that homosexuality is natural). Hmmm, I wonder if the Dalai Lama ever had a secret wank...just to see what it feels like or because he couldn't help himself or whatever....or if he's lived a totally wank/orgasm free life!
                • Elaine,

                  I think it’s important to understand there are a number of branches of Buddhism and many sects. The Dalai Lama is a well-known spokesperson for one of the sects, but he does not speak for all Buddhists.

                  As I understand it, Buddhist philosophy has little to do with good and bad, right and wrong. It’s just cause and effect. It is grasping for and clinging to sense objects, which causes suffering, not the experience of the sense object in-and-of-itself. The suggestion to refrain from sense pleasures (of which sex is one of many) is because many people are unable to experience sense pleasures without becoming attached to them, leading to clinging, resulting in suffering.
                • >>I found this interesting. NOw I like me some Dalai Lama, but it was kind of refreshing to find something I could disagree with him about. <<

                  With you there.

                  Who would have guessed, I figured if all his monks where those long skirts he was probably pretty open minded. *W*
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    The way I figure it I'm an omnivore (former vegetarian) but I don't get up in arms when the Dalai Lama advocates vegetarianism so why should I get twisted up about our differences in views on sexuality? Especially since I suspect from his point of view the former is probably more (or just as) important.
                    • Yoon >> The way I figure it I'm an omnivore (former vegetarian) but I don't get up in arms when the Dalai Lama advocates vegetarianism <<

                      While many Buddhists are vegetarian, it is technically not a requirement. The suggestion to refrain from killing, the first precept, includes not killing animals, but does not preclude eating meat as long as you did not kill it, and it was not killed specifically on your behalf. That said, I think this suggestion was put into place at a time when most people killed their own food for themselves. It is arguable that meat you purchase at the market today was killed on your behalf in the sense that you are driving market demand, but that’s just my interpretation. Personally, I refrain from eating meat because of animal cruelty and environmental issues.

                      It should also be noted that Buddhist precepts are more like suggestions than rules. The third precept is to refrain from taking what is not freely given, which prohibits coercion to abide by or enforcement of rules. For example, I don’t think you could have a Buddhist police officer, because that job requires you to enforce rules, to coerce people into doing what they are not freely inclined to do, which would violate the third precept.
                      • That is not the point I was making. Abstaining from sexual activity isn't a requirement either. The point is no one ever seems to be bothered when he encourages vegetarianism but so many seem to be bothered (or disappointed) by his views on sex yet from where he sits one is probably not less or more important than the other.

                        And in countries where the majority of the population is Buddhist I am sure there are Buddhist police officers who feel just fine about themselves because as you said the precepts are more like suggestions than rules.
                        • Yoon >> The point is no one ever seems to be bothered when he encourages vegetarianism but so many seem to be bothered (or disappointed) by his views on sex yet from where he sits one is probably not less or more important than the other. <<

                          Interesting point.

                          Yoon >> I am sure there are Buddhist police officers who feel just fine about themselves <<

                          There are many ways in which people can self-identify that are inconsistent with their actual behaviors.
              • i think i could probably live w/out noodles.
                but, yeah, they are pretty good w/alfredo sauce.
                ok, the truth is i have a weakness for fettucine (sp?) alfredo. a major weakness. i could eat that shit all day every day.
                so i guess maybe i couldn't live w/out noodles.
                wow, it looks like this thread actually provoked a realization in me.
                thanks, sam.

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