anyone believe in astrology?

topic posted Fri, March 7, 2008 - 4:42 PM by  harold
this week i went thru the effort of trying to learn something about myself by using astrology. if youre interested - it is fairly simple to plug in your date/time/place of birth into astro.com and itll give you this cool chart like ive uploaded into my own photos, (a circle with all the signs in a ring on the outside - and then your planets with criss-cross lines along the inside).

of course nothing ever seems to be easy for me - i didnt know my exact time of birth. so i went thru the process of changing my birth time in 2-hr increments to see what changes it predicted for my "ascendant". after reading all the possibilities, i chose a couple that seemed closest to my own perception of myself - and will carry on with my "studies" from there...

it seems it is really easy to find ways that astrology predicts things that apply to us. heck, i think im self-contradictory-enough that almost ANY prediction/description might apply eventually...

have any of yall decided and/or chosen NOT to believe in astrology? was it because the predictions/descriptions were innacurate? or was it for some other reason?

i think it is fun to look at the predictions/descriptions astrology provides. do i truly BELIEVE in it? well, no, not really. but it doesnt seem to cause any harm. does it?
posted by:
harold
Los Angeles
  • Re: anyone believe in astrology?

    Fri, March 7, 2008 - 5:16 PM
    I can imagine that with the recent technology having discovered millions of stars and such.. that there is plenty of material for astrologist to ponder about.

    I have never been interested in knowing my future.. so it does not attract me for that. I do like the symbolism and the notion that we are related with the cosmos in some personal way.

    Science shows that our bodies are made of stars.. I like that thought.
    • Re: anyone believe in astrology?

      Fri, March 7, 2008 - 6:25 PM
      yeah, last i checked - they are still using pluto as a planet - even tho it recently got demoted. altho the website DOES say that the original planets stop at saturn...

      i dont know, i enjoy thinking about stereotypes and symbolism and old-wives-tales and unelievable-monsters. just kinda fun to take a step out of the humdrum reality every once in awhile. astrology even has some cool math to play with !

      one of the astrology tribes got asked the question - what will astrologists do when (assuming itll happen eventually) people start being born on different planets, like mars?
  • Re: anyone believe in astrology?

    Fri, March 7, 2008 - 6:33 PM
    yes.
    I believe that astrology can be a very useful tool for gaining self-understanding.

    for me, I don't use astrology to "predict the future" or anything like that.

    but when it comes to getting a different perspective on what's going on in my life (or what has gone on in the past), it provides a basis for all kinds of great insight, and I've always found it to be right on.
  • Re: anyone believe in astrology?

    Fri, March 7, 2008 - 7:41 PM
    I sorta do, but I never really know what to do with it.

    There's a book called "The Book of Divination", by Ann Fiery, that I checked out of the library a long time ago. I thought the chapters on astrology were well written - they explained a good portion of it pretty clearly, in a fairly succinct way.
    The book isn't just about the Divinational aspects of things, despite the title.

    I'm curious about doing things by astrological signs. Some people think that it is best to make sauerkraut when the moon is in a certain house, for example. Farmers used to do all sorts of things by moon signs, back when.

    I'm also curious about the idea of astrocartography. The astro site produces a map of the continent for you (at least it did back a few years ago, the last time I checked), with some lines laid out across it, but I'd be curious to know if you could do the same thing on a smaller, more local scale.
  • Re: anyone believe in astrology?

    Fri, March 7, 2008 - 7:56 PM
    I find free will astrology to be right on a lot of the time. It's not necessarily telling you what's specifically going to happen, but helps you to consider a new way to approach what is already happening and what might be most beneficial at that time. So far, this week was right on... I have been getting chased down by men! You go Rob!
    • Re: anyone believe in astrology?

      Tue, March 11, 2008 - 1:30 AM
      >>>free will astrology to be right on a lot of the time

      i guess i should just google it, but what is the distinction with free-will astrology? i know what free will is and i thought i knew what astrology was - and combining them does not seem antithetical to me. basically astrology just shows you the patterns, it is up to you to manifest your own life...

      and hey - how can i start getting "chased down"? who is rob? ok, i must be completely clueless today...
      • Re: anyone believe in astrology?

        Tue, March 11, 2008 - 12:11 PM
        Here's the link to Rob Brezny's site (Free Will Astrology):

        www.freewillastrology.com/

        Brezny is simply awesome, and I think that he's really not that much into astrology any more. He does his horoscopes by more than one method, and I think pulling a card from the Antero Alli Vertical Oracle deck as the significator for the sign for the coming week is a key part of his method, and a lot of just plain guesswork too. I find his horoscopes to have always been completely inapplicable to me and my life -- but I just enjoy reading them, and everything else he writes. His book "Pronoia" is a masterpiece; the guy is brilliant fun, an extremely loving and perceptive jester who can crack your mind open.

        The "free will" part reflects what a lot of modern astrologers say, that the planets' influences aren't there to rule you but to help you in some way -- but up until modern times, astrology, wherever found: Egypt, China, India, quickly became this absolute morass of rules about what you could do when, and not that much about divination - a huge industry still exists in calculating the right time to do every single thing you can possibly imagine in India, and I know people who are completely into it and who plan their every activity by the planets. But then, they have plenty of time to do that, and their activities are few, and they don't have a job, and for some of them, frankly, it just becomes a justification of their natural procrastination. Due to the complexity of each person's chart, when you intermingle that with the complexity of all the celestial influences considered in astrology, you come up with a fine mess, and the outcome is that the prohibitions greatly outweigh the permissions--and nobody without special training can penetrate the complexities. Which, for an Indian astrologer who makes his living figuring out the right times for things, is the whole reason for his being.

        Despite the fact that I can see definite correspondences between astrological tenets and actual beings and events, I just got so completely fed up with astrology a long time ago -- I'm still keen on astronomical goings-on and pay attention to sun, moon, stars in that way -- but not being able to sign contracts and having your car and electronics break down for up to 30 days three times per year, every year, because of Mercury retrograde????? Puhleeze. Even though it is a fact that there are a whole lot more car and computer breakdowns during those periods, and even though I'm still superstitious enough that I bought my last car only a good week after Mercury went back direct . . . I resent it!!! For me, I can't garden by the moon -- I've gotta garden when certain entirely other influences come into play: me, the weather, the available time, whether my hand is up to digging, and do I have enough energy to move --- these are the forces that govern my garden and yard. Not the moon.

        So for me I've just demanded of the Universe that it leave me the heck alone!! I am busy and have no time for planetary interferences.

        On top of all this -- people never seem to notice that while power over us all is granted to the teensiest farthest planetoid, the biggest power over us is obviously Earth. Which is completely omitted from astrology. Right there you have to scratch your head and say wha???
  • Re: anyone believe in astrology?

    Fri, March 7, 2008 - 9:55 PM
    I do not believe in astrology. Conceptually it just doesn't make sense to me that celestial bodies (planets, stars, etc.) way out in space can have any influence over my day to day life. Astrology doesn't take into consideration all the stuff that's out there, just the things we can see and that make vaguely familiar patterns to our constantly pattern searching minds. And beyond that there are billions of other people on the planet born under all kinds of signs at various times, days, and years that we interact with on a day to day basis. Even if all the celestial bodies did have some sort of effect on us it would be virtually impossible calculate what that effect would be and it definitely wouldn't be as simplistic as the basis for astrology.

    That said I do understand peoples need to feel that there is something outside ourselves that controls our destiny. But just because there's a need doesn't mean that it's true.

    My 1.5 cents

    Scott
    • Re: anyone believe in astrology?

      Tue, March 11, 2008 - 1:24 AM
      >>>I do understand peoples need to feel that there is something outside ourselves that controls our destiny. But just because there's a need doesn't mean that it's true.

      very good point. i hadnt thought about it that way (there being a need). my question, of course, is what about that other half-a-penny. where did it go? ;-)
    • Re: anyone believe in astrology?

      Wed, March 26, 2008 - 10:20 AM
      <<Conceptually it just doesn't make sense to me that celestial bodies (planets, stars, etc.) way out in space can have any influence over my day to day life.>>

      Moon. Tides. Bodies mostly water. Makes a whole lot of conceptual sense to me. Not in terms of traditional astrology, predicting the future, etc, but in terms of the effects of energy configurations on physical development in the womb (as in, interpreting a natal chart).

      <<That said I do understand peoples need to feel that there is something outside ourselves that controls our destiny.>>

      Huh. I wouldn't see astrology as controlling our destiny, nor would I see myself or many other people I know who are interested in astrology as "looking for something outside ourselves that controls our destiny."
      • Re: anyone believe in astrology?

        Thu, March 27, 2008 - 1:23 AM
        Yes, the moons effect on water pulling the tides and even the crust of the earth itself due to gravitational pull do make a whole lot of conceptual sense. How you translate that into affecting physical development in the womb does not. Sure gravity is pulling on the mother & the baby & everything around us in various proportions but the infinite gravitational influences couldn't have any predictable outcome on personality, at least not by our number crunching capabilities at this point in time and definitely no time in the past. And effect on energy configurations....what's an energy configuration? Certainly not something you can measure or even describe at this time and if it's not measurable (and thus not provable) it's pure speculation.

        I'm not trying to be mean here but there's a whole mess of new age pseudoscience that people "believe" in because it sounds cool & uses words & thoughts from actual science. But belief is not enough to make it true.
        • Re: anyone believe in astrology?

          Thu, March 27, 2008 - 4:19 PM
          My personal theory is that anything that can exert pull on water can affect the physical development of a feotus. Personality (at least in the research that I've read) is shaped (or possibly I should say affected by) physiological development. Deeper than that, I can't say; I'm not a biologist. I can't say because the moon pulled a certain brain-pathway this direction instead of that direction, a person is more like a stereotypical Gemini, for instance, than a stereotypical Scorpio. But I do know that some research points to, say, a high level of stress in the mother leading to an excess of testosterone in the baby, which leads to a more aggressive personality...

          As I said, I'm not a biologist.... It's just my pet theory.
          • Re: anyone believe in astrology?

            Sat, March 29, 2008 - 1:36 AM
            But that's the thing, everything exerts pull on water and fetuses alike. Everything exerts a force on every thing else. Lets say, for example, it's the third month into your mother's pregnancy with you. It's a Monday and your mom is visiting a friends house and she's sitting on her couch having a conversation. At that moment the moon is exerting a gravitational pull on her from what ever direction it happens to be and what side of the earth happens to be facing it at that moment. At that same moment the couch she is sitting on is also exerting a force, as well as her friend, the house itself, and the car parked out on the street. Every single object around her is exerting a gravitational pull on her and you, the fetus inside of her. Every single moment of every single day this is going on. Even if all these forces had some effect on the future personality of this baby, and maybe it does, there are so many constantly changing variables the final outcome would be impossible to detect. And it certainly couldn't be as simple as astrology tries to make it.
  • Re: anyone believe in astrology?

    Mon, March 10, 2008 - 2:59 AM
    One of the schools of astrology evolved into the study of body types, and I guess this branch has branched out as well. Anyway, a person is categorized by their type, or what planet they're associated with. They have a certain set of physical and psychological characteristics. I studied this for some time and found that - yes - you could actually type a person, initially by the physical characteristics. In a loose sense - this person is a Chevy, that one is a Mercedes. Anyway, after a while you can get pretty good at it - this person is a Saturn, that one is a Venusian, etc. And after a while you can see that people's physical characteristics to a certain extent describe their behavioral tendencies.

    I can't confirm if these relationships are really related to the planets, but clearly the distinctions are there. Ya know, we classify atoms by the tiny particles that swirl around them. Maybe there is something regarding these big balls of rock flying around.
    • Re: anyone believe in astrology?

      Tue, March 11, 2008 - 1:27 AM
      >>>body types

      hmm - yup our brains are fairly well tuned to making generalizations... ive never heard of people "being a planet", other than that classic men-are-from-mars stuff.
      • Re: anyone believe in astrology?

        Tue, March 18, 2008 - 3:46 AM
        I like a lot of what the astrologers at astro.com have to say. Their interpretations of the data really resonate with me - they tend to come from a place of describing the energies in detail that are being expressed at any given time and advising the individuals that they have choices of how to work with those energies.

        I've gone through a few phases between doubt and faith in the time since I first started reading astrology (many years), but when I look back on my life and see how it describes times I've already experienced and the interactions with people I know, I tend to feel it's pretty accurate.
        As some folks in the astrology tribe say, it doesn't matter if you believe in astrology - it's just another language for describing and explaining our existence and if it helps promote some understanding, all the better!
        • Re: anyone believe in astrology?

          Tue, March 18, 2008 - 8:11 PM
          Rob is a *god* - no question about it!

          I figure anything that causes one to take stock of their soul and their way in the world, even if it is to compare and contrast your truth against a proscripted set of personality traits, is a good thing. I do believe that there are deep kernels of truth in astrology, as I have seen them bear out in the people that I know, and myself, pretty darn accurately. I find the whole "art" fascinating. BTW, I have an Aries sun, and a Cancer moon and Cancer rising. I definitely see some deep truths in that assessment. Namaste! ~ Misha :o)
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: anyone believe in astrology?

            Mon, March 24, 2008 - 1:11 AM
            >>>
            i think it is fun to look at the predictions/descriptions astrology provides. do i truly BELIEVE in it? well, no, not really. but it doesnt seem to cause any harm. does it?
            <<<

            It depends on how you use it....
            • Re: anyone believe in astrology?

              Tue, March 25, 2008 - 5:26 PM
              >>>depends how you use it...

              yeah - i tend to use it as a piece of information. if im new to meeting someone, then ill use it to see if the "generalities/stereotypes/compatabilities" hold up. other times, at the end of a relationship - ill try to use it to help explain "what went wrong". i know this sounds like a cop out - shouldnt i be able to think for myself? but, there ya go - that is how i use it...

              it gives me comfort when things seem to go wrong - and an extra excuse for happiness when things are going right... i use it mostly (nowadays) for the interpersonal understandings. i used to use it to try to understand myself. ive sorta decided that im me and while there are some aspects of my astrological-signs that are pertinent - it doesnt seem to tell the whole story...

              joey - im gonna have to go click on your profile now and see what-you-are... lol

              have fun, h.
  • Re: anyone believe in astrology?

    Wed, March 26, 2008 - 11:21 AM
    I find it pretty absurd. Constellations are given attributes of earthly animals, or mythological beings, or concepts even, then that radiation is supposed to shine back on planet earth and affect the actions and behavior of people and planetary events.

    There is no mechanism for which that is supposed to happen, no particle, ray or emission.

    My picture is that a bunch of shepherds were bored out of their skulls and began drawing pictures out of the nighttime sky. Next thing you know they were taking those pics and transmitting them to their kids, who began telling stories about them. Scroll forward a few thousand years and have you have astrology.
    • Re: anyone believe in astrology?

      Wed, March 26, 2008 - 11:34 AM
      It's all a system, anyway, a way of seeing and/or describing a pattern. We see patterns, in behavior, in mathematics, and we want to find the reason behind it.. It's just that for the purposes of description, words came before numbers. Attributes came before rays or emissions. Therefore the older systems are more subjective.

      Modern scientists still can't explain everything by rays or emissions, or pure mathematics. That's why systems are still only systems, and never apply generically, across the spectrum, to all people.

      Sorry, feeling abstract and devil's-advocate-like, today. ;-)
      • Re: anyone believe in astrology?

        Thu, March 27, 2008 - 11:24 AM
        Free >> words came before numbers <<

        Numbers are words.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: anyone believe in astrology?

          Thu, March 27, 2008 - 11:29 AM
          >>>Numbers are words.<<<

          So? does that mean one can't come before another?
          • Re: anyone believe in astrology?

            Thu, March 27, 2008 - 2:35 PM
            Joey >> So? does that mean one can't come before another? <<

            The short answer is that it's pretty much meaningless, and almost certainly unprovable to say one came before the other, because the assertion is overly generalized.
            • Re: anyone believe in astrology?

              Thu, March 27, 2008 - 4:21 PM
              Hehehehe - I'm not even going to get into that with you. I was indeed making a generalized statement - as at that moment, I was talking about generalities and abstracts.

              Maybe I should have said words came before algebra. Or the concept of language came before the concept of numerics. It's all frickin semantics and since I don't have any citations to back it up off the top of my head without wasting my work hours searching the Internet, it's all a moot point anyway and you can ignore me. I'm sure it doesn't bother me in the least.
              • Re: anyone believe in astrology?

                Thu, March 27, 2008 - 4:23 PM
                My point being I don't "BELIEVE" in astrology, however, I do see its usefulness as a system for description among those who subscribe to that particular form of jargon.
                • Unsu...
                   

                  Re: anyone believe in astrology?

                  Thu, March 27, 2008 - 5:14 PM
                  >>>
                  Maybe I should have said words came before algebra. Or the concept of language came before the concept of numerics.
                  <<<

                  Would have been more clear for some maybe, but I knew what u were sayin'...
      • Re: anyone believe in astrology?

        Fri, March 28, 2008 - 6:20 AM
        Free >> Modern scientists still can't explain everything by rays or emissions, or pure mathematics. That's why systems are still only systems, and never apply generically, across the spectrum, to all people. <<

        I agree. Science does not "explain" anything. It's a model. It's usefulness is in its predictive power, which is why I am interested in the predictive power of astrology.

        For example, I would feel confident that I would make money on an even bet that if I flipped a coin a thousand times, it would come up heads less than 750 times. Because there is a lot evidence to support the predictive power of probability theory, I have confidence in that, but it really doesn't explain anything. It's just a model.

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