Norman Joe (or Jane) up for election

topic posted Thu, September 11, 2008 - 2:38 PM by 
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Once again we have someone running on the "I am a normal person just like you" ticket. And people are actually falling for it! Sarah Palin is not normal like anyone! That lady is a scary. Why are people so keen to vote in someone because they have things in common with them? Since when is being a hockey mom a presidential qualification? Or even a Vice Presidential one?
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  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Norman Joe (or Jane) up for election

    Sun, September 14, 2008 - 1:44 PM
    Man you guys are so sexist... ...it would be no different if McCain picked Hillary as his running mate.

    Seriously, this election is a win-win for liberals -- either we get the 1st black president or the 1st female president (after McCain dies of pneumonia or something, which I'm sure he would no more than 6 months into his 1st term)... ...then we see that "minorities" do just as shitty a job as anyone else, and we can finally relax about this whole glass ceiling nonsense. It's not the people who are in office that suck, it's PEOPLE in general that suck and are deeply flawed/imperfect. I mean I'm a complete idiot asshat and I still feel like I'm smarter than 90% of the people I see around me.

    But either way, Bush is gone soon. We should be celebrating that IMO.
    • We are sexist?

      Sun, September 14, 2008 - 2:03 PM
      Honestly how dim witted are you trying to be? If the only issues you are seeing here are sex or race then truly you are the one who is both sexist and a racist. What kind of ignorant thinking assumes that we would want ANY woman to be president or ANY black person? I want a qualified candidate! If you only give us credit for not wanting this person because of sex and not because she is ignorant, and dangerous and lacks proper qualifications then you deserve her kind of leadership.
      And we wouldn't be getting rid of Bush, we would just be getting a worse version of him.

    • Re: Norman Joe (or Jane) up for election

      Sun, September 14, 2008 - 2:13 PM
      Also where the fuck are people getting this idea that one woman in the white house would finally dissolve the glass ceiling and rid us all of sexism? What the fuck doesn't anyone ever read history anymore?

      India has had a female leader - is sexism gone there? Answer: NO
      Israel has had a female leader - is sexism gone there? Answer: NO
      Argentina has had a female leader- is sexism gone there? Answer: NO
      The Phillipines has had a female leader - is sexism gone there? Answer: NO
      The UK has had a female leader - is sexism completely gone there? Answer: NO

      South Africa has had a black president. Is racism completely gone there? Answer NO!

      Sexism and racism and all kinds of isms are far more complex than something that could be automatically dissolved by one or two prominent appointments. Learn some history before you come in here calling us sexist and blathering on about how you are smarter than 90% percent of the people.
      • Re: Norman Joe (or Jane) up for election

        Mon, September 15, 2008 - 1:16 PM
        Yoon >> finally dissolve the glass ceiling <<

        It is arguable that the ceiling is already dissolved (at least for women).

        www.iwf.org/campus/show/18948.html
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: Norman Joe (or Jane) up for election

          Mon, September 15, 2008 - 1:40 PM
          huh.

          from their website:

          "The Independent Women's Forum is a non-partisan, 501(c)(3) research and educational institution. Founded in 1992, IWF focuses on issues of concern to women, men, and families. Our mission is to rebuild civil society by advancing economic liberty, personal responsibility, and political freedom. IWF builds support for a greater respect for limited government, equality under the law, property rights, free markets, strong families, and a powerful and effective national defense and foreign policy. IWF is home to some of the nation's most influential scholars—women who are committed to promoting and defending economic opportunity and political freedom."

          here's they're board of directors

          www.iwf.org/board/

          might want to do a little research on your sources. they don't sound awfully unbiased to me.
        • Re: Norman Joe (or Jane) up for election

          Mon, September 15, 2008 - 2:15 PM
          How weird to be quoted so partially and out of context. My only mention of the glass ceiling was directly in reference to Quandry's posting this: "we can finally relax about this whole glass ceiling nonsense."
          And I stand by my post that sexism isn't going to miraculously disappear if we get one lady in the White House.
          • Re: Norman Joe (or Jane) up for election

            Mon, September 15, 2008 - 2:24 PM
            No ism will... It is ingrained in our being.. <now hold on here before ya nuke me>

            We make choices to divide between what we perceive as "Our Tribe" and others. Isms are based on what people consider others.

            Most are not right but I do not believe they will go away. It is part of what has made primates successful. Well that and the opposable thumb

            The trick to me is integration. Those outside the "normative group" need to be integrated. To simplify they need to be considered the norm and thus part of the tribe. As it stands within the current Western structure they are not part of the norm. General society considers it a them.

            This includes issues like race gender culture and mental health status. <religion btw is lumped in culture for all intents and purposes>

            I can only speak in terms of the US urban and agri areas. I am very certain there are other parts of the globe that do a better job. In my view here we do piss poor at best.

            JSin
    • Re: Norman Joe (or Jane) up for election

      Sun, September 14, 2008 - 5:42 PM
      Man you guys are so sexist... ...it would be no different if McCain picked Hillary as his running mate<<<

      If McCain picked Clinton ( using his last name and her first name by the way is a bit... hmmm sexist too, perhaps?), we would have way bigger problems because that would mean we were in Bizarro World, where up was down, black was white, dogs and cats were living together and yes meant no.

      Besides, we wouldn't be getting rid of Bush if McCain won, we would just be getting a third term of Bush.

      I want a qualified candidate is all.

      And McCain winning does have some benefits in fucked up way too. Like everyone would finally learn how to pronounce and spell the word "schadenfreude" correctly
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Norman Joe (or Jane) up for election

      Sun, September 14, 2008 - 7:24 PM
      <<It's not the people who are in office that suck, it's PEOPLE in general that suck and are deeply flawed/imperfect.>>

      ummm...people in general may suck, but the above is not true when the people in office may be in the position of being able to swing the Supreme Court completely to the conservatives in the next 4-8 years. i'm afraid the "both sides are the same" argument doesn't hold up in this election cycle.
    • Re: Norman Joe (or Jane) up for election

      Sun, September 14, 2008 - 11:21 PM
      quandry wrote:
      >"I still feel like I'm smarter than 90% of the people I see around me."<

      Wow you really must have low standards, Seriously man your last post was definitely dumber than 90% of the folks around me.

      JSin
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: Norman Joe (or Jane) up for election

        Mon, September 15, 2008 - 12:10 AM
        I can only quote Elton John...

        "can you feel the love tonight?"

        Holy fucking Jesus, can't you idiots see a sarcastic joke when you see one? Holy fuck, this planet is way more fucked than I even thought. LOL at all of you...
        • Re: Norman Joe (or Jane) up for election

          Mon, September 15, 2008 - 12:15 AM
          Nice attempt at defense, woman hater. It's obvious you only value women for their sammich making abilities and the occasional nice rack.



          We could never even begin to understand the beginnings of your awesomeness.Please have pity on us poor idiots, not being able to hear your inside your head voice while you were typing all that out eariler in the thread. Not putting any indication of your sarcasm such as a clever emoticon must have been an mere oversight on your part, you being so smrt and all.















          • Unsu...
             

            Re: Norman Joe (or Jane) up for election

            Mon, September 15, 2008 - 12:31 AM
            I usually pay Mexicans to make my sandwiches AFAIK. They may be male or female, I rarely notice.

            But yes, I know, my awesomeness is difficult for many to comprehend, and I tend to float several levels above most people's comprehensive abilities.

            Excuse me while I fall on my own sword and usher myself into the next world, where with any luck my having a penis would not subject me to such gender inequities as the MILITARY DRAFT and complete lack of REPRODUCTIVE CHOICE (not to mention WOMEN AND CHILDREN FIRST in case of emergency).

            Have a Nice Day!

            ;)

            (did that emoticon help?)

            God I hate Tribe. Remind me why I've unsubscribed like 10 times?
            • Re: Norman Joe (or Jane) up for election

              Mon, September 15, 2008 - 12:48 AM
              Um, everyone knows that Mexican's don't even enjoy making sandwiches, they really rather make tacos. Delicious tacos. Forcing these people to make you a sandwich is both cruel and inhumane.


              I had no idea you were being drafted into the military right now. I also didn't know you couldn't control your reproductive choice by not putting your naked defenseless penis anywhere an ovary might be planning it's doom. And then making it sick and throw up from fear of the whole possible baby creating that might be occurring right then and there. That's also bordering on both cruel and inhumane, really.
              Poor guy, what with your limited choices and inability to follow potential choices to possible consequences, I am surprised you haven't fallen on your sword before now. ( Hint- pointy side goes up, otherwise you are just falling onto the ground and risking nasty looking bruise instead of a cool wicked slash across the abdomen. Suicide by Bruising isn't nearly so elegant as suicide by samurai sword.)

              I believe the rule is Women and Children first, Safety third. I have it in the Chick Guidebook somewhere..

              And you have a pleasant day yourself.




              ( Y )
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: Norman Joe (or Jane) up for election

                Mon, September 15, 2008 - 8:03 AM
                I ADORE you, Elaine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                Can I borrow you, your painfully hilarious wit and flawless sarcasm for a few days? Oh, and don't forget to bring that nice rack of yours!

                -K
              • Re: Norman Joe (or Jane) up for election

                Mon, September 15, 2008 - 8:57 AM
                Elaine wrote:
                >"Um, everyone knows that Mexican's don't even enjoy making sandwiches, they really rather make tacos. Delicious tacos. Forcing these people to make you a sandwich is both cruel and inhumane.">

                Damn where an i gonna get my tortas. I would hate to be cruel and inhumane to the cute young Mexican ladies at the taqueria down the block from my house.

                JSin
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: Norman Joe (or Jane) up for election

              Mon, September 15, 2008 - 6:26 AM
              hehe...reincarnation doesn't work better on tribe. you can still come back as a bug.

              really, quandary, take your lumps and communicate like everyone else, or don't complain.
              • Re: Norman Joe (or Jane) up for election

                Mon, September 15, 2008 - 7:30 AM
                Now that I seemed to have missed all of the "fun" of having some random fuckface come in here and act like a tard, I would instead like to take this moment to encourage everybody to piss off Elaine whenever possible:

                She's so much more hella' when she's angry. That was awesome.
              • Re: Norman Joe (or Jane) up for election

                Mon, September 15, 2008 - 9:44 AM
                "hehe...reincarnation doesn't work better on tribe. you can still come back as a bug."

                Ha! That is awesome, Free!

                Mr. Not a Misogynist, Just Being Sarcastic decided to send me a PM asking if I was obese or not, because if not, he'd like to fly to SF a blow a load on my face. Then unsubscribed.

                Genius is found in the rarest of places. (insert sarcastic emoticon here)
                • Re: Norman Joe (or Jane) up for election

                  Mon, September 15, 2008 - 10:45 AM
                  Mammoth wrote:
                  >"Mr. Not a Misogynist, Just Being Sarcastic decided to send me a PM asking if I was obese or not, because if not, he'd like to fly to SF a blow a load on my face. Then unsubscribed."<

                  Damn seems like a waste of a trip. If I were to head to SF to meet up with a woman for a sexual encounter I think I would likely want to do a little more than just Jack off on her face...lol

                  JSin
                • Re: Norman Joe (or Jane) up for election

                  Mon, September 15, 2008 - 11:05 AM
                  <<Mr. Not a Misogynist, Just Being Sarcastic decided to send me a PM asking if I was obese or not, because if not, he'd like to fly to SF a blow a load on my face. Then unsubscribed. >>

                  Bahahaha!!! What a dorkus!
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Since we already seemed to have abandoned the topic...

                    Mon, September 15, 2008 - 11:30 AM
                    This brings up something I have heard very mixed reports on:

                    I have heard guys insist that blowing a load in someone's face is not meant as an insult.

                    But then, we hear some douchebag use the scenario in what is obviously a degrading manner.

                    So honestly, guys – even if it's in a role-playing way: isn't blowing a load in a woman's face an implied insult? I would like to hear just one man admit it.
                    • Anne wrote:
                      >"So honestly, guys – even if it's in a role-playing way: isn't blowing a load in a woman's face an implied insult? I would like to hear just one man admit it."<

                      I will cop to it... Yes it is. In a role playing type scenario I generally only do it if the woman has asked for it in some way <I am kinked and this is part of negotiation. Most of the women I have been with that enjoy it also like other aspects of Humiliation play. It falls inside their kink.

                      JSin
                      • Well, thanks, JSin. I think you're the first I've ever heard to admit it.

                        And please *do* enjoy this in your consensual way with partners who are fine with it!

                        It just always pissed me off to hear the same tired old BS from men trying to sell me the converse. FWIW, I never fell for it.
  • Re: Normal Joe (or Jane) up for election

    Wed, September 17, 2008 - 9:14 PM
    Damn, this is some fucked up shit! alaskareport.com/news98/x6..._palin.htm
    • Re: Normal Joe (or Jane) up for election

      Thu, September 18, 2008 - 9:45 AM
      what a fuckwad.

      the below was passed on to me and was noted as written by a professor
      at Tallahassee Community College (although i don't have any way of checking
      that). it was copied into a facebook group's description:


      Excuse me, but has anyone else noticed that Sarah Palin is insane?
      Global
      Basic Info
      Type:
      Common Interest - Politics
      Description:
      This group is for anyone who wonders how in the hell the erstwhile governor of Alaska can simultaneously be:

      A woman and anti-choice

      A mother and pro-war

      Anti-corruption and currently under investigation for abuse of power

      A governor for 20 months and more experienced than Barack Obama

      A foreign policy expert and a woman who only got her passport in July ‘07

      A woman who is a “leader in climate change” and a woman who believes humans do not contribute to global warming, also a woman who shoots moose for fun and supports oil drilling in her state’s wildlife preserves.

      From a family of educators and pro-creationism-in-the-classroom

      The GOP’s responses to all of this?

      “You get more experience to be president in a month of being governor that you do in several years of being a senator…Sarah Palin had more executive experience as the mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, than Barack Obama has had in his entire life.” – Mike Huckabee

      “Palin knows about foreign policy because Russia is right next door to Alaska.” – Steve Doocy

      “Now, this establishes Undeniable Truth of Life Number 24, which says, ‘Feminism was established so as to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream of society.’ I guarantee you these messages Dawn is getting are probably pretty typical of liberal women across the country, and what it boils down to -- you know it and I know it –is jealousy. They're just jealous of her, Dawn. That's it, pure and simple.” – Rush Limbaugh
      • Re: Normal Joe (or Jane) up for election

        Thu, September 18, 2008 - 9:48 AM
        Palin doesn't think polar bears should be listed as a "threatened" species, because their inclusion on that list might jeopardize Alaska's oil pipeline prospects.
        ap.google.com/article/ALe...DkAD92S4MS04

        news source in America separates fact from fiction in Palin's acceptance speech.
        news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080..._fact_check

        Palin billed the taxpayers for nights she spent at her house. She also charged them for her kids' travel expenses when the family went out of town.
        www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...25.html

        Sarah Palin is reported to have said "So Sambo beat the bitch," when she heard about Obama's win over Hillary.
        www.laprogressive.com/2008/09...2%80%9D/

        Sarah Palin "won't rule out" war with Russia. BEcause THAT'S always been known to go so well.
        www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...8.story
        • Re: Normal Joe (or Jane) up for election

          Mon, September 22, 2008 - 1:00 PM
          www.236.com/video/2008/g...n_an_9028.php


          Anyone remember Get your war on?



          Maybe NSFW.
          • Re: Normal Joe (or Jane) up for election

            Tue, September 23, 2008 - 10:20 PM
            ooooooh. such a good one.
            • Is Obama Another Dukakis?

              Wed, September 24, 2008 - 9:07 AM

              Why is Obama so vapid, hesitant, and gutless?
              By Christopher Hitchens

              Last week really ought to have been the end of the McCain campaign. With the whole country feeling (and its financial class acting) as if we lived in a sweltering, bankrupt banana republic, and with this misery added to the generally Belarusian atmosphere that surrounds any American trying to board a train, catch a plane, fill a prescription, or get a public servant or private practitioner on the phone, it was surely the moment for the supposedly reform candidate to assume a commanding position. And the Republican nominee virtually volunteered to assist that outcome by making an idiot of himself several times over, moving from bovine and Panglossian serenity about the state of the many, many crippled markets to sudden bursts of pointless hyperactivity such as the irrelevant demand to sack the chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission.

              And yet, and unless I am about to miss some delayed "groundswell" or mood shift, none of this has translated into any measurable advantage for the Democrat. There are three possible reasons for such a huge failure on Barack Obama's part. The first, and the most widely canvassed, is that he is too nice, too innocent, too honest, and too decent to get down in the arena and trade bloody thrusts with the right-wing enemy. (This is rapidly becoming the story line that will achieve mythic status, along with allegations of racial and religious rumor-mongering, if he actually loses in November.) The second is that crisis and difficulty, at home and abroad, sometimes make electors slightly more likely to trust the existing establishment, or some version of it, than any challenger or newcomer, however slight. The third is that Obama does not, and perhaps even cannot, represent "change" for the very simple reason that the Democrats are a status quo party.

              To analyze this is to be obliged to balance some of the qualities of Obama's own personality with some of the characteristics of his party. Here's a swift test. Be honest. What sentence can you quote from his convention speech in Denver? I thought so. All right, what about his big rally speech in Berlin? Just as I guessed. OK, help me out: Surely you can manage to cite a line or two from his imperishable address on race (compared by some liberal academics to Gettysburg itself) in Philadelphia? No, not the line about his white grandmother. Some other line. Oh, dear. Now do you see what I mean?


              --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


              --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

              Why is Obama so vapid and hesitant and gutless? Why, to put it another way, does he risk going into political history as a dusky Dukakis? Well, after the self-imposed Jeremiah Wright nightmare, he can't afford any more militancy, or militant-sounding stuff, even if it might be justified. His other problems are self-inflicted or party-inflicted as well. He couldn't have picked a gifted Democratic woman as his running mate, because he couldn't have chosen a female who wasn't the ever-present Sen. Clinton, and so he handed the free gift of doing so to his Republican opponent (whose own choice has set up a screech from the liberals like nothing I have heard since the nomination of Clarence Thomas). So the unquantifiable yet important "atmospherics" of politics, with all their little X factors, belong at present to the other team.

              The Dukakis comparison is, of course, a cruel one, but it raises a couple more questions that must be faced. We are told by outraged Democrats that many voters still believe, thanks to some smear job, that Sen. Obama is a Muslim. Yet who is the most famous source of this supposedly appalling libel (as if an American candidate cannot be of any religion or none)? Absent any anonymous whispering campaign, the person who did most to insinuate the idea in public—"There is nothing to base that on. As far as I know"—was Obama's fellow Democrat and the junior senator from New York. It was much the same in 1988, when Al Gore brought up the Dukakis furlough program, later to be made infamous by the name Willie Horton, against the hapless governor of Massachusetts who was then his rival for the nomination.

              By the end of that grueling campaign season, a lot of us had got the idea that Dukakis actually wanted to lose—or was at the very least scared of winning. Why do I sometimes get the same idea about Obama? To put it a touch more precisely, what I suspect in his case is that he had no idea of winning this time around. He was running in Iowa and New Hampshire to seed the ground for 2012, not 2008, and then the enthusiasm of his supporters (and the weird coincidence of a strong John Edwards showing in Iowa) put him at the front of the pack. Yet, having suddenly got the leadership position, he hadn't the faintest idea what to do with it or what to do about it.

              Look at the record, and at Obama's replies to essential and pressing questions. The surge in Iraq? I'll answer that only if you insist. The credit crunch? Please may I be photographed with Bill Clinton's economic team? Georgia? After you, please, Sen. McCain. A vice-presidential nominee? What about a guy who, despite his various qualities, is picked because he has almost no enemies among Democratic interest groups?

              I ran into a rather clever Republican operative at the airport last week, who pointed out to me that this ought by rights to be a Democratic Party year across the board, from the White House to the Congress to the gubernatorial races. But there was a crucial energy leak, and it came from the very top. More people doubted Obama's qualifications for the presidency in September than had told the pollsters they had doubted these credentials in July. "So what he ought to do," smiled this man, "is spend his time closing that gap and less time attacking McCain." Obama's party hacks, increasingly white and even green about the gills, are telling him to do the opposite. I suppose this could even mean that Sarah Palin, down the road, will end up holding the door open for Hillary Clinton. Such joy!

              www.slate.com/id/2200587/
              • Re: Is Obama Another Dukakis?

                Wed, September 24, 2008 - 10:48 AM
                Sorry, but Christopher Hitchens? Really?

                He lost me at "dusky Dukakis".
                • Re: Is Obama Another Dukakis?

                  Wed, September 24, 2008 - 10:53 AM
                  i guess i'm just tired of people who can't be critical of their own candidates.

                  that and the fact that i don't have one.

                  yet.

                  all i know is it won't be one of the two disaters of a main party.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Is Obama Another Dukakis?

                    Wed, September 24, 2008 - 11:01 AM
                    I am plenty critical of Obama. I don't think he is the messiah at all, and I don't think he is or even can solve a lot of the issues we got hereabouts.

                    But he looks sweet in a cowboy hat and that's good enough for me.

                    Being a big fan of cowboy hats, you know.
                    ;-)
                    • Re: Is Obama Another Dukakis?

                      Wed, September 24, 2008 - 11:04 AM
                      LOL!

                      Elaine
                      wins some sort of unlimited libation supply award for having the ability
                      to make me laugh through almost any frustration.
                      • Re: Is Obama Another Dukakis?

                        Wed, September 24, 2008 - 12:45 PM
                        I think the political system and the election cycles are amusing and fun, so there is that. I get all giddy at this stuff..
                        I like who I like for sure, but the I always find this sort of thing fascinating ,albeit frustrating at times.

                        Here's a new twist...


                        www.cnn.com/2008/POLITIC...ap/index.html


                        Already I am hearing a lot of "McCain is not ready for the debates! He is stalling!" So this is either a brilliant move on his part, or will explode in his face.

                        • Re: Is Obama Another Dukakis?

                          Wed, September 24, 2008 - 2:29 PM
                          i don't think he's stalling, that's just stupid.

                          i do believe
                          - he's right to do this
                          - it's politically motivated
                          - it's pretty imperative

                          i also believe that Obama is right to say that the debate and
                          the economic summit can both be accomplished.

                          and don't forget, McCain called for debates a while ago
                          which Obama declined to do.
                          • Re: Is Obama Another Dukakis?

                            Wed, September 24, 2008 - 2:51 PM
                            McCain did not want debates, but town hall meetings. Debates have a mediator. If Obama had done that, he would have been perceived as following McCain's lead and the right would have swooped on it. besides, McCain has been able to use Obama's refusal to do so as justification for running such a libelous string of falsehoods called ads.

                            I have no respect for that article simply because one cannot hope to gain a thing by readings the ramblings of an obvious misanthrope. What did he tell us besides the fact that everyone sucks? That's no news at all. He also seems to ignore the fact that Obama is raking McCain over the coals with poll numbers (which still leave out the large youth vote).

                            I also disagree with the notion that people do not critique their own candidate. I too, have been concerned about the backlash of taking the high road, but if Obama did not do that he would not only be in conflict with is own nature, but open to attacks on going back on his word. What's the lesson? You can't win. ( Now is when you should imagine Michael Jackson dancing around in a scarecrow suit).

                            Does Obama aggrandize? Of course! Will he be able to do all that he has proposed? No way! But, what would you rather have? Do you want to vote for someone based on how they attack their opponent or how they can build economic, social and governmental infrastructure in a way that functions? Or at least try to? IMO, we need to get over thinking that the best candidates have the best power to destroy, look where it has gotten us. Who has the power to build and who is demonstrating that in their campaign? What's so wrong with having integrity and allowing people to hang themselves, politically?

                            If McCain wins, I will not blame Obama for not trying hard enough. I'll blame the American people for not expecting enough.
                            • Re: Is Obama Another Dukakis?

                              Wed, September 24, 2008 - 3:37 PM
                              the media referred to them as debates

                              www.cnn.com/2008/POLITIC...ll/index.html


                              >>But, what would you rather have? Do you want to vote for someone based on...<<

                              did you miss the part where i mentioned i will be voting for neither major candidate?
                              • Re: Is Obama Another Dukakis?

                                Wed, September 24, 2008 - 5:56 PM
                                So are you voting Libertarian? And if you are surly you aren't thinking Bob Barr is a better candidate than Barack Obama?


                                Bob Barr voted for the "Patriot Act", the 2002 "Use of Force " resolution authorizing Bush to invade any country at any time, for "no child left behind", for the "Department of Homeland Security", consistently votes against abortion rights, and voted to uphold U.S. intervention in the bedroom with his votes for Clinton's impeachment.
                                He authored and sponsored the Defense of Marriage Act, a law enacted in 1996 which states that only marriages that are between a man and a woman can be federally recognized, and individual states may choose not to recognize a same-sex marriage performed in another state.
                                In Congress, he also controversially proposed that the Pentagon ban the practice of Wicca in the military.
                                en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Barr

                                He is so far from what I have always understood Libertarianism to be. He is just another version of a Republican from what I can tell.
                                • Re: Is Obama Another Dukakis?

                                  Wed, September 24, 2008 - 7:07 PM
                                  >>So are you voting Libertarian?<<

                                  i already answered that.

                                  extremehonesty.tribe.net/threa...0c9cb4


                                  for the record

                                  when i became old enough to vote i registered as a democrat.
                                  in my early 30's, i registered as a Libertarian.

                                  as a Libertarian, i was aware and informed about Bob Barr from the beginning.

                                  for that reason, i am now registered as an independent
                                  and no longer affiliated with the Libertarian party.


                                  • Re: Is Obama Another Dukakis?

                                    Wed, September 24, 2008 - 7:36 PM
                                    <<i already answered that. >>

                                    Sorry, I didn't see that you had.


                                    <<as a Libertarian, i was aware and informed about Bob Barr from the beginning.
                                    for that reason, i am now registered as an independent
                                    and no longer affiliated with the Libertarian party. >>

                                    OK, cool. I remembered that before (I think when I first met you) you told me you were a Libertarian so I was just guessing that you were maybe voting Libertarian. Glad to hear you aren't. That candidate is sucky. He is like the anti-Libertarian. Being a registered independent actually makes sense to me. Despite being a registered democrat I think it is good to vote across party lines. I just haven't seen many Republicans that inspire me to cross vote.

                                    And for the record I don't think that Obama is the Messiah. He's just the best choice we have in this election cycle.
                                    • Re: Is Obama Another Dukakis?

                                      Wed, September 24, 2008 - 7:55 PM
                                      >>That candidate is sucky<<

                                      understatement of the fucking year
                                      what the hell were they thinking?


                                      the whole thing is incredibly depressing.

                                      i would love to be able to believe in someone, but all i'm left with
                                      is the feeling that everything needs to be pulled down and begun again.


                                      • Re: Is Obama Another Dukakis?

                                        Wed, September 24, 2008 - 9:50 PM
                                        I'm curious. Did the entire Libertarian party change? Bob Barr just seems so far to the right.
                                        • Re: Is Obama Another Dukakis?

                                          Thu, September 25, 2008 - 5:18 AM
                                          i dont think the libertarian party has changed (at least its views), but it has indeed been backing some very odd choices. could it be that there are no actual libertarian-valued politicians willing to stand up and be nominated within the libertarian party? it is an interesting possibility - the exact values you believe in - make you NOT want to get-involved with the election-system... ??? just asking cuz id never heard of bob-barr before this post, so they (libertarians) couldve easily picked any other "real" libertarian as a really-qualified-no-name, imo.
                                        • Re: Is Obama Another Dukakis?

                                          Thu, September 25, 2008 - 9:15 AM
                                          >>I'm curious. Did the entire Libertarian party change?<<

                                          there has been a major uproar in the party over this.
                                          people have been leaving in droves.
                                          what happens next remains to be seen, but it could indeed mark
                                          a radical shift in the Libertarian party.

                                          >>Bob Barr just seems so far to the right.<<

                                          he is.
                                          it's baffling.
                                          • Could Obama be more awesome?

                                            Thu, September 25, 2008 - 11:45 AM
                                            I got my Obama t shirt from moveon. com today.
                                            Now I have a large picture of a black man to display across my chest, which will truly freak my southern mother right the fuck out. If for nothing else, I have to thanks Obama for that.
                              • Re: Is Obama Another Dukakis?

                                Wed, September 24, 2008 - 10:24 PM
                                It was a non-specific use of 'you' and in reference to the posted article. We can duke it out at dusk if you like... or duel, but I get to choose the weapon.

                                Also, every media source I have seen it mentioned in got the terminology right. I also have seen footage of both candidates discussing it, but I have been following this election more closely than I would guess most people have the stomach for. I honestly am shocked that I have endured this much exposure to politics and haven't gone postal yet.
                            • Re: Is Obama Another Dukakis?

                              Wed, September 24, 2008 - 4:09 PM
                              are there any recent articles out there that are critical of Obama written
                              by people you do respect?

                              and if there are, would you mind providing a link?

                              (i'm not being snarky by asking this, i'm actually curious)
  • Re: Norman Joe (or Jane) up for election

    Sat, September 27, 2008 - 4:08 PM
    Actually makes no difference - the US is going to
    suffer from a whole lot of crap the next few years,
    and whoever gets in office will not be able to do
    much about it, and will get blamed for it.

    Anyone who wants high elective office in this country
    for any reason other than ego satisfaction is just
    plain nuts, and should be locked up.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Norman Joe (or Jane) up for election

      Sun, September 28, 2008 - 7:57 AM
      << the US is going to
      suffer from a whole lot of crap the next few years,
      and whoever gets in office will not be able to do
      much about it, and will get blamed for it.>>

      probably true. it would be nearly impossible to, say, point the finger at the Bush administration and say thanks for running the country into the ground.

      <<Anyone who wants high elective office in this country
      for any reason other than ego satisfaction is just
      plain nuts, and should be locked up.>>

      cynicism is easy, but sad.
    • Re: Norman Joe (or Jane) up for election

      Sun, September 28, 2008 - 9:30 AM
      Roosevelt managed to do something about it when he was President. I'm not ready to believe quite yet that nothing can be done to help us. Will we be the same? No, and we shouldn't be. We should learn a lesson from the recent years and we need to learn how to reign in our spending but that doesn't mean things won't get better.
      • Re: Norman Joe (or Jane) up for election

        Sun, October 5, 2008 - 11:36 PM
        <<probably true. it would be nearly impossible to, say, point the finger at the Bush administration and say thanks for running the country into the ground.>>

        Why not? They happen to be immanently responsible....

        It happened during the last eight years, no question. The previous administration had a surplus economy.

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