Just curious: How many people (if any) in your life are you completely, 100% honest with, at all times, not hiding *anything*: dark thoughts, fears, hatreds, lusts, etc.?
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  • Misha
    Misha
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    Re: How many people are you completely honest with?

    Fri, June 20, 2008 - 9:37 PM
    Far, far less than a scant handful. I should probably be seeing a counselor, frankly . . .
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    • Re: How many people are you completely honest with?

      Fri, June 20, 2008 - 9:42 PM
      Myself.

      My therapist, whom I've been seeing for 6 years now and my man. Though at times it can be trying (for him) because I am way more up front and communicative than anyone he's ever known (he says) and while he appreciates it he also finds it taxing on occasion.

      -K
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      • B E B
        B E B
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        Re: How many people are you completely honest with?

        Sat, June 21, 2008 - 11:59 AM
        >> he also finds it taxing on occasion. <<

        I often find this is the case with people. It's just "too much" for them when I let out how I really feel (even when it has no bearing on them directly, so it isn't ego-bruising that makes them recoil, it's just the raw honestly of it all.

        For me, it it myself, my therapist (but I even then I sometimes hold back on the most dark and violent urges I have had when under great duress), and a very scant handful of people I know (only 2 of which I still am close with).
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  • Mammoth
    Mammoth
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    Re: How many people are you completely honest with?

    Sat, June 21, 2008 - 12:00 PM
    I don't know if it's possible to be 100% honest. But I'm pretty damn close with myself (I like to think. Gosh, now I'm starting to doubt myself) and my dude, too. I'd say I'm at a good 85%+ with another couple of people.
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    • Anne
      Anne
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      Re: How many people are you completely honest with?

      Sat, June 21, 2008 - 12:04 PM
      Well, to fly in the face of this tribe's name, is 100% honesty always productive?

      An unsolicited "ya know, those pants make your ass look fat" may be honest, but do we always want to hear it?
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      • B E B
        B E B
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        Re: How many people are you completely honest with?

        Sat, June 21, 2008 - 9:02 PM
        >> is 100% honesty always productive? <<

        no, of course it isn't. That's what makes total honesty so difficult and rare.
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        • harold
          harold
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          Re: How many people are you completely honest with?

          Sun, June 22, 2008 - 7:28 AM
          im sure im not 100% honest even with myself... so my answer is going to be a definite zero.

          but, to corroborate with the consensus that is being achieved here - the general shape of the graph of "number of people" vs "amount of honesty" (for me) starts small, growing to a hump at my personal comfort level of maybe 10-20 people and 50% honesty and then drops back down until the final bump of "everybody else" and maybe 10% honesty depending upon context.

          and at this point, ive even confused myself on what the hell the graph looked like... so - im sticking with my original answer - noone... lol
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          • Elis...
            Elisabeth
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            Re: How many people are you completely honest with?

            Sun, June 22, 2008 - 10:59 AM
            >>im sure im not 100% honest even with myself... so my answer is going to be a definite zero.

            Ditto. I ENDEAVOR to be 100% honest with myself, but it isn't as though there is only one set of (T)ruths inside there. I have a plethora of wants, needs and opinions inside, some quite contradictory. The implication of this question is that inside we have one single, agreed upon truth inside that we may or may not share. If I let the stream of consciousness of my brain-heart-soul-hormones come out, I'd sound a bit possessed and totally contradictory. However, all the parties inside argue a bit and then one (t)ruth emerges. So the question is, how much do I let other people see that argument process? A rare few and only when I need a mediator.
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            • Re: How many people are you completely honest with?

              Sun, June 22, 2008 - 1:52 PM
              Seems it is the influence from what's outside of us, our immediate environment (people, places and things) and whatever that's composed of that dictates the flow of that internal argument and shapes a truth that will ultimately emerge. I question (at least for myself) the degree of control I might have concerning the outcome - the 'one (t)ruth' you refer to.

              And this brings up another question for me. Is it really even possible 'not' to be truthful? What has gone down has gone down, and it's only after the fact that we make judgment calls concerning what that was.
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            • B E B
              B E B
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              Re: How many people are you completely honest with?

              Sun, June 22, 2008 - 7:50 PM
              >> If I let the stream of consciousness of my brain-heart-soul-hormones come out, I'd sound a bit possessed and totally contradictory. <<

              I know I look possessed sometimes when I am in full-on hyperdimensional train-of-thought ramble mode. :)

              >> but it isn't as though there is only one set of (T)ruths inside there. I have a plethora of wants, needs and opinions inside, some quite contradictory.<<

              Agreed, and the acknowledgment of those contradictory parts of ourselves is a big part of being honest with ourselves (as for being 100%, I agree it is something to aim for, but rarely actually fulfilled in my experience, as there is always another "layer of the bullshit onion" to peel away and discover how I have been deluding/lying to myself again.

              Take the example that I am in general a very non-violent person, but I love ultra-violent video games like GTA4 and find them amusing (and sick at the same time).




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  • Re: How many people are you completely honest with?

    Sat, June 21, 2008 - 2:53 PM
    For me it's a process of floating balloons. I'll become acquainted with someone and we'll begin an exchange (or be required to have an exchange), and over the course of the relationship I'll find myself floating little balloons, throwing out ideas, possibly my takes on things, and I'll attempt to see how the other person reacts and responds. It's usually fairly simple for me to see what level of communication another feels comfortable with, and generally I don't find the need or have the desire to push beyond that limit - unless, of course, there is some form of extenuating circumstances - which means you got to get your finger nails dirty, rumble a bit. Though that is generally the exception rather than the rule. To answer your question - I'd say there are only a handful of people I could be 100% honest with all the time, and even with those my communication with them would be context sensitive.
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    • Lumiere
      Lumiere
      online 48

      Re: How many people are you completely honest with?

      Sun, June 22, 2008 - 3:45 PM
      at work - no one. I am very strictly self-censored there, and that's the wise choice. Elsewhere, whatever I do say I endeavor to make it as honest and sincere as possible, but I simply do not talk about some areas with most people. I have one friend that I can talk about these areas with (in fact we were on the phone a couple of hours today doing just that). But with no one do I talk about dark or negative feelings of fear or despair that I might occasionally go through. I handle those myself and feel it's my job to be emotionally self-supporting in that way.
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  • saddha
    saddha
    online 54

    Re: How many people are you completely honest with?

    Mon, June 23, 2008 - 11:18 AM
    In my own life, I attempt to adhere to the eight Buddhist precepts.

    The forth is to abstain from saying what is untrue, which addresses honesty. The fifth, sixth, and seventh are to abstain from saying what is harmful, harsh, or unnecessary, which addresses the feelings of others.

    I have these goals WRT all people, self included, though I am generally better at number four than I am at numbers five through seven.
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    • Marpa
      Marpa
      online 44

      Re: How many people are you completely honest with?

      Tue, June 24, 2008 - 1:18 AM
      >>to abstain from saying what is untrue, which addresses honesty<<

      I've been trying to parse the precepts. I've seen that one as: I undertake the precept to refrain from incorrect speech.

      And right (not incorrect) speech has five keys: It is spoken at the right time. It is spoken in truth. It is spoken affectionately. It is spoken beneficially. It is spoken with a mind of good-will.

      Are you talking about other precepts? Numbers five through seven as I know them don't really have to do with saying anything.
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      • saddha
        saddha
        online 54

        Re: How many people are you completely honest with?

        Tue, June 24, 2008 - 5:45 AM
        Marpa >> Are you talking about other precepts? Numbers five through seven as I know them don't really have to do with saying anything. <<

        My mistake. You are correct.

        The eight precepts are generally taken to mean the eight precepts undertaken by lay people during retreat, which I believe is what you are referring to.

        What I should have said was the eight *lifetime* precepts, which are a little different.

        www.bhavanasociety.org/main/r...ecepts/

        Sorry about the confusion.
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        • Marpa
          Marpa
          online 44

          Re: How many people are you completely honest with?

          Wed, June 25, 2008 - 9:59 AM
          saddha, thanks for clarifying. as i said, i'm still trying to parse the various precepts.

          It looks like Gunaratana expanded or clarified the five precepts to eight from abstaining from false speech to abstaining from false, malicious, harsh and useless speech?

          That's kind of interesting in light of this thread, even of this whole tribe. False speech would be what I would call dishonesty, But malicious, harsh or useless speech aren't really dishonesty. But they do tend to spread suffering. That brings up the question of in what case does "extreme" honesty itself become malicious, harsh or useless. Seems to me there is a difference between not lying and spreading suffering by being needlessly honest.
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          • saddha
            saddha
            online 54

            Re: How many people are you completely honest with?

            Thu, June 26, 2008 - 4:04 PM
            Marpa,

            WRT to parsing out the 4 speech precepts of the 8 lifetime precepts, false speech can be interpreted as speech which is untrue, so technically, you can say something that is false or untrue while honestly believing that what you said was true, though result is less important than intent, which helps because you only know what you know. I think that stream of consciousness speech would fall into the category of useless speech more-often-than-not. You could intend your speech to be harmless, while it might still be harsh, though I think if you intended it to be harsh it would necessarily be harmful.
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            • Marpa
              Marpa
              online 44

              Re: How many people are you completely honest with?

              Sat, June 28, 2008 - 7:51 AM
              >>I think that stream of consciousness speech would fall into the category of useless speech more-often-than-not.<<

              probably more often than not. however, i have experienced and invoked stream of consciousness that seems far more useful and effective than "normal" speech as well. are you familiar with tralam-me
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