Do you believe in God?

topic posted Wed, June 17, 2009 - 10:41 AM by  Tinkles
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I, myself, lean toward the Agnostic side of things. I would be an Athiest, but I keep finding myself wondering what was the force that pushed the first domino. It is difficult for my little human reasoning to grasp nothing begat nothing.

I have studied multiple religions from Presbyterian, to Ekankar, to 9 months of catechism in the Catholic faith, to Wicca, and many little studies in between of various sects and beliefs. I still can't come to the conclusion that there is a God, or a Jesus, or an anyone/ thing/ force here for me. Well, maybe a force, there are times where I feel in complete connection with the universe, and I feel big and small at the same time.

I believe in science (a little Nacho Libre referrence for ya.) How do ya'll feel?
posted by:
Tinkles
Portland
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  • Re: Do you believe in God?

    Wed, June 17, 2009 - 11:33 AM
    For me I am firmly an Atheist. That being said I am also influence by both Buddhism and Taoism. These concepts are not mutually exclusive.

    Other influences for me include Nihilism and other philosophical schools of thought.

    In terms of the whole fist domino type thing, I am just fine with I do not know. I have no reason to believe it was some imaginary friend who started it. Besides that creates a nasty little thing like looking for first cause. If God did it who or what created God? This is the end result of looking through a cause and effect argument. To me it is intrinsically flawed.

    JSin
    • Re: Do you believe in God?

      Mon, July 6, 2009 - 6:55 PM
      wow packed thread! ok here i go...... I do personally beleive, to those who are questioning whether or not to belive or do belive in "somthing" but not sure which path to follow is give this...... Focus on the similarities of all the worlds belief systems rather than the differences. If we all did that the world would be a bette place for sure. Most would be shocked to find that some of the most opposite of denominations still follow and belive in the same basic codes of ethics and right and wrong. To relate to Athiests the horrors that have come from religion over history is undeniable but that does not necessarily mean that a strong BELIEF is wrong. Is there a supreme being or force out there. I beleive so. Many would ask wheres your proof? But i would ask wheres your proof that there isnt? Faith is somthing that transcends proof and logic afterall. From a Christian/Jesus standpoint i would like to raise this point. Whether you beleive he is a son of a god, a god himself, a human prophet, just a raving lunatic or that he didnt exist in the first place, he began his teachings at 30 and died at 33 and in 3 years changed the world forever. No one in History real of fictional has ever had such an impact on the world. I beleive there is somthing to follow from whatever we can learn from a man such as that.
  • Re: Do you believe in God?

    Wed, June 17, 2009 - 12:22 PM
    Yes, I believe in God - A force that set the universe into motion. Sometimes I feel very connected to this creative life force and realize all things are possible. I think a bit of it is in all of us and through it we can see beyond ourselves - sort of an internal map/plan of the universe. On an emotional level, it feels like joy, love and completeness. If you were to visualize it within yourself, it sits just under your navel at your center of balance and looks like a ball of light, or a multi-dimensional mini galaxy, a pocket of everything. Of course it exists outside you as well. The God energy is in and between everything.
    • Re: Do you believe in God?

      Wed, June 17, 2009 - 1:05 PM
      I am just not egotistical enough to proclaim,"there is no God." Who the hell am I to say that? Who the hell am I to say there is a God? I am riding the fence, and probably always will. I don't denounce out of fright, as if I'm I thinking I may burn in hell if I say that, I think if the Jesus/God that are in the bible exist I'm already doomed to a crispy afterlife.
    • Re: Do you believe in God?

      Wed, June 17, 2009 - 1:13 PM
      What this question brings up for me has more to do with the phrase "believe in" than what follows it. Belief is very interesting and powerful and intersects different domains in different ways.

      There are some things it seems ridiculous not to believe, such as many of the natural laws. But then there are things like dreams or our imagination. Do I "believe in" the dream I had last night? Well, I know I experienced the dream, but I probably won't live my life around the dream like I do, say, around the reality of gravity. I do, however, live my life around the freedom and vitality of my imagination. It seems stupid not to.

      It's not that I don't "believe in" conventional concepts of God. Ideas of various Gods obviously are a reality that many people choose to base their lives on, or base their lives against. To do so with some ideas of God seems very limited and rather unintelligent to me, depending on the immaturity of the ideas themselves (such as a white-haired, wrathful old man with a thunderbolt temper or the equivalent violent dark-skinned versions).

      Some of the more open-ended versions seem to obviate the needs to even use such a term or idea as God, much less "believe in" or "not believe in" them, such as All That Is, or some of the underlying Buddhist, or Muslim, or Christian concepts that all hint at a multidimensional, creative outpouting of Love and Light being the fundamental basis for everything and every one.

      On an emotional level, it seems that belief is what pulls everything together in our lives. Believing money is evil, then money will be evil. Believe greed is something to strive for, then you'll strive to be greedy. Believe some ancient, mistranslated text should rule you're life, then it will. Believe happiness is only possible through romantic love, then your life will be ordered according to that belief. Believe in the unstoppable creativity and power of spirit, then Bob's your uncle and (in my opinion) you've got an advantage that others for some darn reason aren't yet aligned with.
  • Re: Do you believe in God?

    Wed, June 17, 2009 - 2:45 PM
    Ultimately, yes I probably do, although I'm not sure if it's more hope than belief. I do believe that the death of the human body is not the end of that person. There is so much we don't know, so much we can't see that to exclude or define those unknown matter seems stupidly arrogant to me. Humans and human societies have been utterly convinced of too many foibles in the past (the world is flat, the sun revolves around the earth etc. etc.) to claim ultimate knowledge now.
  • Re: Do you believe in God?

    Wed, June 17, 2009 - 6:07 PM
    i believe god is everything. all of reality, and the nothing that it came from. is the sum total of reality self aware? am I? are you? when everything that exists becomes self aware, god will be self aware. i think the real question that is trying to be asked is does god currently dictate the events in your life?... and does god care about you? think of it like this...do you observe, track, manipulate, and care about every cell of your body? as above, so below.
    • Re: Do you believe in God?

      Sat, June 20, 2009 - 4:31 PM
      I have thinking about this post for a bit and I wanted to add to it. Firstly a person has to be able to define the word "god" to answer a question about it. (mother is the name of god on the lips of every child...something I heard along the way.) So if a person can define what the word "god" means to them, then that is the "god" they believe in. I think it comes down to this question............"Do you think their is a "god" that believes in you?"
  • Re: Do you believe in God?

    Thu, June 18, 2009 - 1:39 AM
    I hate this question "Re: Do you believe in God?" - who cares ?

    But yep, I do.

    And I think your and your opinion is worth no less if you dont and no more if you do.

    *moves on*
  • Re: Do you believe in God?

    Thu, June 18, 2009 - 7:55 AM
    Not so much. I try not to believe in anything but a few abstract concepts to keep my ethical orientation and attitude positive. My considered opinion on this subject is that we are all connected along with all life. At some point we open our minds to this connectedness, and it shines so brightly that we cannot really see it - too much to bear perhaps - like coming out of a cavern into the daylight. Many of us bear it enough to keep our eyes open, and are labeled psychic. Most just close up again and label what they have seen as god.

    As for a creator... Perhaps someone sneezed, or dropped a pebble in a pond, or maybe Douglas Adams has it right,

    "Sorry For The Inconvenience"
    • Re: Do you believe in God?

      Thu, June 18, 2009 - 7:00 PM
      I have my own personal, subjective, Creaton Mythology...
      part of that mythology is that EVERYONE has their own, totally subjective, totally personal creation myth.
      Even Atheists, and especially rational science people!

      I couldn't agree with y'all more about religion, it ain't opium - it's malt liquor and crack!! I'm doing so much better since I kicked main-lining the dogma. I look forward to the epoch of accepting others personal subjective spirituality, but I think I may have been born a century too early...
      oh well!
      • Re: Do you believe in God?

        Fri, June 19, 2009 - 9:02 AM
        Patric - "I look forward to the epoch of accepting others personal subjective spirituality, but I think I may have been born a century too early...
        oh well!"

        All you have to do is start accepting others' personal subjective spirituality. Can you also accept others that don't have what you consider personal subjective "spirituality" or do you feel the need to impose your beliefs upon others?

        I have no problem accepting people's personal experiences and beliefs as personal, subjective experiences and beliefs...after all, I cannot know another's experiences, they obviously have that experience and the story they tell themselves about it obviously has meaning or helps them to make sense of the world. However, I don't consider someone's personal subjective beliefs as objective fact or anything more than personal subjective experiences - and that includes my own subjective experiences. Sadly, quite a lot of people who have personal subjective experiences and beliefs they label as "spiritual" seem to require others also believe their personal subjective experiences are objective fact (not subjective experience) and get evangelical and hostile about it. The question is, why do some people need to so desperately impose their personal subjective spirituality on others if it's personal and subjective? Why can't they allow others to believe differently from them and accept that we don't all personally and subjectively experience the world in the same way? And why do so many mistake their personal subjective spiritual experiences and/or beliefs for global objective reality?

        And, no, I don't believe in god or gods. However, all the stories us humans tell ourselves about nature (where we anthropmorphise nature) are interesting, if only for what they reveal about us as humans and storytelling. (Just as the stories we tell ourselves reveal things about us and our perspective on the world and others.) One can have ecstatic experiences of union and all kinds of peak experiences without attributing them to god or spirituality (I consider these kinds of experiences human experiences not divine, they don't require faith or a belief in god or gods). Also, not everyone needs a creation myth. Some of us are quite okay with not knowing, uncertainty and exploring possibilities rather than needing to make up something - anything! - to fill in the gaps. Not all of us need a god of the gaps to feel secure or need to believe there's more to life than life and living one's life in the here and now. The world is a rich and diverse place and people are equally rich, interesting and diverse. As long as people aren't trying to impose their personal subjective spirituality on me, or assert their subjectivity is universal and objective, I take no issue with them and very much enjoy hearing about their experiences and the stories around them they've either adopted or created :-)
        • Re: Do you believe in God?

          Fri, June 19, 2009 - 12:24 PM
          The weird thing is, I used to think that reality is nothing other that the masses agreeing it is so. I mean, that would verify what is real versus what isn't real. If I were to say that your green is my blue, etc. Or if a schizophrenic says demons talk to him, in his world it is true, but to the masses he is crazy, because the majority rule it out.

          I don't believe that reality has to be a consensual agreement.

          To me, perception is all the reality you need. You see demons, well, that's your reality. You talk to God, well, that's your reality. What that schizphrenic is experiencing is soo real to him. What the believer in God sees/feels is soo real to him. I am not necessarily implying that believers in God are crazy.

          There is, however, such a thing as mass hysteria/hallucination especially when you are brainwashed from the cradle to the grave. Or when the media shoves it in your face daily.

          What do you trust? Your reality (your perception of,) or the masses/ media/ upbringing, or exterior feelings/visions/happenings (which in my opinion also fall into the reality realm?)
          • Re: Do you believe in God?

            Fri, June 19, 2009 - 12:37 PM
            I've thought about it, and according to what I've written, God is real; to those who believe, but only in thier reality. This sucks :)
            • Re: Do you believe in God?

              Fri, June 19, 2009 - 6:57 PM
              <All you have to do is start accepting others' personal subjective spirituality>
              You're right! I'm stating my intention to begin to accept everyone's personal reality by starting with everyone on this thread, and branching out from there.

              Tinkles, I think it makes you freakin' cool that it's OK god's real in my reality and not yours, it gives me hope for today.
  • Re: Do you believe in God?

    Sat, June 20, 2009 - 2:09 AM
    I wrote a long post about how I definitely don't believe in god. Then tribe crashed and my post seems to have vanished into the ether. Should I be nervous that I pissed off a fantasy being?
    • Re: Do you believe in God?

      Sat, June 20, 2009 - 6:21 AM
      >>Should I be nervous that I pissed off a fantasy being?<<

      "And, ye, God smote Tribe social network for several almighty hours because one of his 6,793,854,713 children did not believe..."
    • Re: Do you believe in God?

      Sun, June 21, 2009 - 5:59 AM
      Considering an ad for Scientology popped up to go with this thread maybe a little bit of nervousness about the those who have faith in fantasy beings, fantasy medicine/science and their destiny to rule the world in the name of Xenu is in order...
      • Re: Do you believe in God?

        Sun, June 21, 2009 - 10:45 AM
        Sounds like Xenu is not what you'd call a happy-camper God.

        I guess it's no wonder that, if we were to posit the existence of Gods whose powers dwarf normal human abilities, what we'd imagine we ourselves would DO with such powers would fall in line with our own normal human desires. L. Ron was a sci-fi writer, and a pretty successful one at that, so it's no wonder that his Gods show up ballooning atomic blasts out of volcanic craters (even if those Gods come from traumatic memories from 75 million years ago).

        Our own imagining of meta human powers lead to comic books and TV shows and movies, but it seems like the basic struggle of our superheroes or Gods aren't much different than our own normal human ones, and its not often that the struggling leads to anything more noble.
    • Re: Do you believe in God?

      Sun, June 21, 2009 - 6:32 AM
      Not at all... I mean so far in my life I have called the Xian god a pussy repeatedly. Even to the face of his followers. So far no repercussions. In fact my life has gotten much better.

      JSin
  • Re: Do you believe in God?

    Mon, July 6, 2009 - 6:53 PM
    wow packed thread! ok here i go...... I do personally beleive, to those who are questioning whether or not to belive or do belive in "somthing" but not sure which path to follow is give this...... Focus on the similarities of all the worlds belief systems rather than the differences. If we all did that the world would be a bette place for sure. Most would be shocked to find that some of the most opposite of denominations still follow and belive in the same basic codes of ethics and right and wrong. To relate to Athiests the horrors that have come from religion over history is undeniable but that does not necessarily mean that a strong BELIEF is wrong. Is there a supreme being or force out there. I beleive so. Many would ask wheres your proof? But i would ask wheres your proof that there isnt? Faith is somthing that transcends proof and logic afterall. From a Christian/Jesus standpoint i would like to raise this point. Whether you beleive he is a son of a god, a god himself, a human prophet, just a raving lunatic or that he didnt exist in the first place, he began his teachings at 30 and died at 33 and in 3 years changed the world forever. No one in History real of fictional has ever had such an impact on the world. I beleive there is somthing to follow from whatever we can learn from a man such as that.
    • Re: Do you believe in God?

      Tue, July 14, 2009 - 5:42 PM
      I don't think Jesus would be very pleased about the effects of that impact if he existed.

      You know who had a greater impact? Whatever unknown individual that invented the first form of money in the Near East.

      I also don't think Atheism is necessarily based on a rejection of actions taken by believers. It's a rejection of belief that there is a higher power. I'm sure, even without a deity to blame it on, people would still be irrational and short-sighted opportunists.
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Do you believe in God?

    Thu, July 16, 2009 - 10:55 AM
    I am an Atheist. Yet I figure I could be wrong (although I don't wish to consider myself an agnostic) but if there is a God then it would have only been worthy of my faith if it is able to forgive me for this choice to not believe. I found for myself that many of these gods that some choose seem to need an awful lot of attention and praise and I found that rather absurd for something that is supposed to be so powerful. I would like to assume that if I was omnipotent that I would be very chill and totally forgiving rather than the kind of idea I was raised with about God. For me letting go of the idea of God helped me to live more presently and not with some hope for an afterlife of redemption. Letting go of the idea of prayer also helped me take matters more solidly into my own hands. That and the Science Channel all led me to choose this way of non belief...lol I do not however wish to demean or reduce anyone's choice to have faith and believe in a God. As long as they use it for good and not evil (which what the hell is that about anyway?). I think if someone finds peace in faith, that is great....for them. For me, right now, non belief feels just right. I feel like I can try to be a good person just because its the right thing for me to try to be rather than feeling like I am doing it for the reward at the end of the game. Yup, a lifetime of Catholicism may have skewed my perspective. Who knows.
  • Re: Do you believe in God?

    Fri, July 17, 2009 - 8:10 AM
    My personal beliefs have evolved/changed/transformed over time and what I *feel* today may change tomorrow. At this moment in time, I feel a connection to divinity in and through myself and nature - life force - energy - power in all things. My concept of what that energy is cannot be defined by any tradional idea of "god". The concepts of gods and godesses seem to me an expression of the many aspects of humanity and it's efforts to relate to that unknown life force/energy source by anthromoporphising it.

    ...and tomorrow I may wake up and *feel* differently about it all - ha!
    • Re: Do you believe in God?

      Fri, July 17, 2009 - 11:08 PM
      I want to believe there is a god.
      • Re: Do you believe in God?

        Sat, July 18, 2009 - 8:42 AM
        It would be cool if fairies were real. And ents. Of course, the world and plants are pretty cool without having to anthropomorphize them anyway so I don't feel too sad about fairies living only in imagination. Imagination is pretty damn cool too.
        • Re: Do you believe in God?

          Sat, July 18, 2009 - 9:45 AM
          Indeed. What IS the difference (or maybe interaction) between imagination and belief?

          It has been said of Einstein that, were he a better mathematician with less of an imagination, his work would not have been so world changing. So his use of imagination obviously produced results.

          I'm still interested in what people mean here by "believing in." WHAT is believed in (or not believed in) seems just to be a variable in the process, whether that variable is God, the spaghetti monster, fairies, ents, etc.

          It seems that in this thread, "belief in God" mostly has to do with ideas pertaining to what happens after death, doesn't it? So why not eliminate the God part (or the the spaghetti monster part) and just ask what people believe happens after death?
  • Re: Do you believe in God?

    Fri, July 17, 2009 - 11:25 AM
    i absolutely beleive in GOD, but so far im having difficulty trustingHim. Its hard to believe that i will get what i want out of life by following Gods path for me. But my faith in HIm is un-questionable.
    But i also beleive in other gods as well, i fully believe in Goddess, and actually i have trouble believing that ANY god or goddess isnt real to some degree, but i DO beleive that the GOd of Abraham is the most powerful.
    NOt sure if thats the same one as THE CREATOR, but im working on understanding that
  • Re: Do you believe in God?

    Fri, July 17, 2009 - 2:26 PM
    I'm not sure. I have come to the conclusion from being a believer and non-believer at different times in my life, that it doesn't matter one way or the other. The one thing I believe, and maybe out of emotional necessity, is that I will see my loved ones who have passed when I cross that threshold. Maybe I won't, but the thought is comforting.

    If there ever were a mythology I would want to believe in, it would be the one Neil Gaiman created in the 'Sandman' series. It's so inclusive and intriguing.
    • Re: Do you believe in God?

      Fri, July 17, 2009 - 7:23 PM
      hey quel, just ask yourself how would Neil Gaiman's universe be different if you wrote it, write it down, and then that's what you're own personal creation myth looks like.
      It's like reverse-engineering... the entire metaverse :)
      I did the same, except with Terry Pratchett & the Bagvahada Gita!~
    • Re: Do you believe in God?

      Mon, July 20, 2009 - 12:14 PM
      i love that series, Death is one of my favorite characters of all time. and yes, i DO beleive in Her.I think Neil got it exactly right when he created that character, .

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