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Do you like to talk politics ? A non-ideological discussion

topic posted Tue, September 21, 2010 - 12:41 AM by 
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I guess I *am* a political spectator. I often feel any social action I take is well divorced of politics. I can’t see myself ever joining a political party to effect some kind of change to the fabric of our lives, preferring to work on a micro personal level locally. That said, I actually know I have effected legislation while working on a “mirco” level.. While I have a fair few “political” contacts both in parties and in parliament, having been quoted there several times, frankly I mostly cringe when someone introduces politics into conversation, bracing myself for the almost inevitable party politics and ideological rhetoric which is often accompanied by some very stupid statements.

There has been a lot of political chat in this tribe of late.. and once it has stopped .. the tribe has too.

Now “issues”.. I love to talk about “issues”…, but can the “issues’ of the day actually be divorced from politics ?

Do you like to talk politics or are you like me and tend to wander off when folks start on the dreaded topic ?
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  • When I was a teenager and forming my political opinions, I liked to argue politics because it helped me see different points of view and shape what I believed. Nowadays I'm old and set in my ways and I need blood pressure medication to even contemplate a good political discussion.

    That said, I did structure my college writing class around media texts, which involves a lot of politics, and I have been loving the class discussions we've been having. It hasn't been ideologically centered...for instance, we analyzed the rhetorical content of inaugural speeches...and that kind of discussion has been less fraught with the usual epithets, inflexibility, and name-calling than the typical political "discussion." I imagine it'll get even more interesting (and less overtly political) when we start reading 1984. :)

    I consider myself a very political person, but I no longer live in a climate where many people share my opinions, so it's easier to keep my head down. I don't like to convert people, and irrationality makes me crazy.
  • in what context are politicians quoting you?
    • <in what context are politicians quoting you?>

      That would be telling :) But on social health, community work and its value and tax. So if there was a theme it would be poverty I guess.
      • and why are they quoting you?
        • I guess they thought I said something worthwhile..

          Back to the topic at hand..

          Do you think the “issues’ of the day actually be divorced from politics ?

          Do you like to talk politics or are you like me and tend to wander off when folks start on the dreaded topic ?
          • so bloke, you're a past master at not answering questions yet you want to dictate terms with me? like elaine says - tell.
            • <so bloke, you're a past master at not answering questions yet you want to dictate terms with me? like elaine says - tell. >

              “to dictate terms “ No.. I am just trying to have a conversation.

              If I go into detail.. then I *might* became identifiable and I try to preserve my anonymity on the site - hence "Bloke" rather than my real name. I like the anonymity because with it come a freedom of expression. I don’t think I abuse that, simply that when I express any opinion here I want to do that without the worry if it will come back to bite me in the bum, or at least making *some* sort of effort to protect myself against that...which I think is reasonable.... And it is not a thing about fear – it is a matter of prudence. And really, in my opinion what you are asking about is irrelevant to the conversation I am trying to have. If you think it is critical, unfortunately I will withdraw from that par to of the conversation


              • well, first I call that weak at the knees, second the point I'm getting at is politics is inherent to "issues".


                "And really, in my opinion what you are asking about is irrelevant to the conversation I am trying to have. If you think it is critical, unfortunately I will withdraw from that par to of the conversation"
                • I really don't think you're going to get anywhere, Mick. Besides, this isn't even an entertaining form of prodding. lol
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Oh, wait. Mick is that same troll that used to ruin all the old threads! Have you just been waiting around for a new topic, or what?
                    • huh? but since you've given me the opportunity . . I do find it curious that "Bloke" would join an "extreme honesty" tribe while choosing to be decidedly dishonest.
                      • <"extreme honesty" tribe while choosing to be decidedly dishonest.>

                        LOL

                        Maintaining one's privacy is not dishonest. Should you not agree, please send me your bank account number, any employment agreement you currently have, and post a video of your next sexual encounter... mind you.. "honesty vrs dishonesty" has to be the most well trod and very old topics of the tribe and I would say most people wont play on that one unless you come up with a new spin.
                        • LOL, Bloke! The topic of "honesty v. dishonesty" has already been thoroughly harangued by Mick in the past. Boooooring.

                          To answer your question, Bloke: I enjoy some measure of political discussion but when people employ strict idealogies to it, there is no point and it just becomes an exercise in futility. That's when I bow out. You can't solve anything that way and it's just a battle of the ego. For example "honesty v. dishonesty" arguments.
                        • like I said "bloke" you're a past master at not answering questions and that includes employing subterfuge. I think it's reasonable to want the whole context of a subject, and I was simply wanting the full context of some of your statements, I think that's desirable in this tribe particularly, in fact, I think that's reasonable generally. what is boring is having to explain all this to someone who obviously knows yet chooses to play silly games.
                          • <yet chooses to play silly games> & < decidedly dishonest> & < past master at not answering questions and that includes employing subterfuge>

                            Sorry you feel that way Mick, it is not my intent. Simply, I will protect my identity as best I can in a public space like this. I don’t see that as a silly game. I also think I can have a conversation about the idea in the OP without getting into personal specifics that allows strangers to identify those posting (like me!) – I would like to talk about people’s feelings in this idea of can the “issues’ of the day actually be divorced from politics. I think I can do so without getting into specifics which allow me to be identified. If you want to demand me to quote myself from external sites in order to have that conversation, then I am walking away from your and my exchange. I do not see my approach as “subterfuge” but cautious and prudent. I also see it as maintaining my Right to privacy, which I don’t feel I have surrender in being on the Internet or in Extreme Honesty, and I feel that *is*what you are asking of me – to surrender my privacy (I wonder if you watched Q&A last night on the ABC and towards the end the comments about the internet and anonymity versus accountability.

                            All that said, I am looking for a conversation, and if we need to start another thread have one, I am in. But I think a lot of members are going to inwardly groan on the idea of having a reply on the conversation over the nature of Honesty.
  • Personally I like talking politics <as though my interest is an unknown quantity> but prefer to look at in a larger ideological context. The individual issues and minutiae do not interest me as much as the underpinning thought.

    JSin
    • Reiterating Bloke:

      "Now “issues”.. I love to talk about “issues”…, but can the “issues’ of the day actually be divorced from politics ?

      Do you like to talk politics or are you like me and tend to wander off when folks start on the dreaded topic ?"

      Question 1: Depends on the issue.
      Question 2: I'm much more interested in history, building things, and doing outdoorsy things. The history is what should guide our thinking personally in politics so we don't make the same mistakes; our political persuasion should be building communities and not tearing them apart at the seams, and when I want to think environmentally, I go camping.

      Works to some degree for me.
      • <and not tearing them apart at the seams>

        Make a thought pop into my mind - that politics should be a conversation rather than combat.
        • On that note, Bloke, we agree. Politics SHOULD be conversational.

          Too many people tie it in with war.

          The 'War on poverty"
          The "war on drugs"
          The "culture war"

          War BREAKS THINGS. If it MUST be waged, it should be waged with all the fury that can be mustered, quickly and to a peaceful final conclusion. Hitler being removed from Germany in WWII. That evil genius was planning on targeting V-2 rockets on New York City at one time, if the range had been achieved.

          Politics, on the other hand, is about equitable solutions.

          Labor-industrial relations.
          Environmental preservation and sustainability.
          Preservation of human rights.

          And in the case of politics, it would be nice if religious notions were left out of it. Relgious belief sometimes makes things get REALLY heated.
          • <War BREAKS THINGS. If it MUST be waged, it should be waged with all the fury that can be mustered, quickly and to a peaceful final conclusion. .....

            Politics, on the other hand, is about equitable solutions>

            Amen Brother..

            But most in it don’t see it like that. Indeed with a recently potentially hung parliament, there was much talk of politics, in the first instance, being the acquisition of power above the battle of ideas. People were putting forth the assertion that you cant change anything without power, and the first step in power in the democratic process of forming a majority government is winning the seats to do so.
        • sounds kinda smug to me, like the "important" issues have been dealt with and now for the great unwashed . . .


          "Make a thought pop into my mind - that politics should be a conversation rather than combat"
          • I dont quite follow you Mick as to which post (or concept) sounds smug ? (or was it the one of mine you quoted afterward being "Make a thought pop into my mind - that politics should be a conversation rather than combat" ?? )

            Me.. I always remember a friend's contant assertion that war is the extension of politics, refering to a guy he was a fan of - "Nineteenth-century military theorist Karl von Clausewitz wrote that war is an extension of politics, but by other means"

            I guess that is part of what makes me squirm when poltical (verbal) debate gets really vitriolic and angry - it feels like a step towards the direction of war. Probably stupid.. but I guess many feelings are... But you can trace the beginings of so many wars into political .. opps.. I did say a 'non-ideological discussion' so I am going to stop.
  • l'm going to be honest and say that l really don't like talking politics. ln order to fully hold my own in a political discussion, l'd have to know *all* the players (l'm an all or nothing kind of girl, and generally like to know what l'm talking about in such matters), and that would mean taking an immense of my time to research all players, old and new, in order to have the most fully informed opinion l could have. Add to that my neurological issues that allow me to retain only a percentage of what l read or research, l'm bound to get blindsided. Add to THAT the inevitable arguments that ensue and eventually whittle themselves down to a battle of ego and who's right and wrong, and l find less and less that l care to discuss it.

    On the other hand, l know everything about Kenyan politics, not because l lived there, but because it is a brand-new democracy and therefore an essentially blank slate - SO much potential there. The States has been around THIS long and still, we are such babies when it comes to learning from our political lessons and decisions that l find myself losing hope that we'll ever actually get a clue. l'm encouraged by Obama's appointment to office -which frankly, l didn't think was going to happen, though l made sure l played my part- so l observe from a distance, and form my own opinions. But at the end of the day, the older l get, l find that discussion of politics in a country that should know better by now is merely a soapbox on which everyone else insists on having a say. Whether it makes a valid impact or not.

    YMMV, of course.
  • I stay out of politics, save the occasional vote or letter.

    I'm am extremely liberal/marxist/etc by nature so politics and public policy are generally too right-of-center to muster any interest other than annoyance.

    The issues that I think are biggest in out government are dysfunctions in Congress like lobbies, earmarks, and filibusters. Though I know those issues seem almost humorous because they are so blatantly corrupt and simple to legislate against, but our government can't seem to achieve that.

    Education funding is a big issue to me. I think all schools should be funded equally per capita rather than having heavily funded schools in wealthy areas and underfunded schools in poor areas. The conspiracy theorist in me suspects that this issue is not resolved in a deliberate effort to maintain a poor and undereducated class to stock the military with hungry hopeless youngsters.

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