Extreme Honesty's topics - tribe.net

The dichotomy of being beautiful

Kryssa — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 22:22:53 GMT

Just a rant.

The beautiful men I've met seem to have this self-perception that their mere presence is a gift to others that requires little effort on their part other than simply being there. This is the curse of being a beautiful man in our culture (powerful men experience a similar phenomenon)…they are rewarded for minimalist efforts in their personal dealings. People quite simply want to be near them and will put up with a lot, give them a lot, in order to hold that coveted status. I’ve seen it all many times before because I am a beautiful enough woman to attract these beautiful men.

This is also why I have been hesitant to date beautiful men in the past 6 years. They have the tendency to treat women (even the truly amazing one’s) as interchangeable and disposable without being consciously aware of it.

But, it's not the same for beautiful women. Not in this culture anyway. We’re perceived as arm candy, trophies, something to adorn one’s life with and the moment the shiny-ness factor wears off we’re traded in. That is, unless we happen to find ourselves a sweet and not-so-beautiful man that worships us and isn’t afraid to express his adoration and (hopefully) admiration. This is why I’ve tended to stick with ‘geeks’ as lovers. Beautiful women are not expected to be smart or funny or vulnerable and when we are, it’s to our detriment. We’re expected to look good and be made of Teflon. The moment we don’t look so good we must acquire other skills in order to remain valuable. The moment we’re no longer valuable is when the Teflon coating comes in handy.

As beautiful men age they become even more coveted, yet as beautiful women age they become more disposable (it seems to me anyway). Or perhaps we become furniture. Something that may need the occasional dusting off but otherwise is simply there to be of use.

feeling jaded and frustrated,

-K

posted in Extreme Honesty - 70 replies

How many people are you completely honest with?

beb — Sat, 21 Jun 2008 03:33:27 GMT

Just curious: How many people (if any) in your life are you completely, 100% honest with, at all times, not hiding *anything*: dark thoughts, fears, hatreds, lusts, etc.?

posted in Extreme Honesty - 54 replies

Too many bodies

JSin — Sat, 21 Jun 2008 02:48:22 GMT

Ok being this is Extreme honesty I am gonna lay some shit out, likely piss some folks off.

There are too many human bodies sucking on the blood of the earth.

When I hear about someone that has died unless I know them personally I am unmoved. In fact in many ways I cheer their passing. One less person to damage this planet we live on.

I understand and commiserate with the pain they feel. In the last year I have lost 2 people. My grandmother <who lived too long> and my apprentice <who lived too short and violent a life>

What I know is that we are living on a planet that we are destroying. We are the most invasive parasite on the face of mother earth.

Given this nihilistic belief one might wonder why I do not take myself out of the equation. Believe me I have considered it. Really I mean as my Dad pointed out "There are no living Nihilists" I think it is because I do not wish to cause my Daughter pain and since my insurance precludes suicide and will not pay out on it I have no desire to place an onerous burden on my family.

So I wonder in light of the knowledge we are polluting and destroying our own tank, as it were, why do you feel bad about a body you do not know hitting the floor?

JSin

posted in Extreme Honesty - 32 replies

Mixed Signals

Thirty Nine — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:20:47 GMT

I was hung up on this guy for quite some time, but we never seemed to get it together. I had come to accept that things were just not going to happen for us when we were reunited at a funeral. (Not the most romantic occasion.) We had two funerals and a wedding in our time. Anyway we were getting along quite well. When he was leaving he held my hand and made a long ’speech’ about how he wished the best for me in my life etc. It was like we would never see each other again. This was unlikely for a number of reasons, especially if he didn’t want it to be so. We lived quite close geographically and had other things in common.

So the message was Goodbye forever, but he kept holding my hand in this prolonged handshake, basically like he didn’t want to let go.

So I was very hurt - that he obviously didn’t want to prolong the relationship. At the same time I was very confused - that he didn’t want to let go of my hand.

Am I the only one who thinks he was sending out mixed signals?

posted in Extreme Honesty - 31 replies

Idea for a book, want honest opinions...

beb — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 06:09:33 GMT

I had a late night manic-inspired idea for a book. Now I have been wanting to write a book of some sort for years, as I feel I am a decent writer and can also crank out a lot of ideas and text when in the right mood. The problem has always been I can never settle on WHAT I am going to write a book about. But in this late night brain-train derailing, I came up with a title, and this quickly grew into a "aha! that's it!!" moment, which it seemed so brilliant at the time (ok, yes I was a little inebriated)

So without further adieu, the titles for this potential book idea I came up with:

"The Art of Mental Masturbation: Achieving Metaphysical Orgasm"

or

"Metaphysical Orgasm: The Art of Mental Masturbation"

The general idea is that, just like physical masturbation, mental masturbation can get a bad rap, but ultimately is both FUN and ENJOYABLE. I want to try and negate the stigma I seem to encounter towards "mental masturbation" and show that it can ultimately be a source of pleasure and benefit when used properly. And while there have been books out there in the past 30+ years teaching people the hows and whys of physical masturbation (by Betty Dodson, etc.) there are few if any on the art of "mental masturbation".

I am thinking it would be a series of essays by multiple authors (maybe some of you here if you are interested) and edited by your truly, and would include a wide range of topics that can fall under the category of what can be considered mental masturbation, including:

thinking for fun
philosophy
video games
TV
fantasy (sexual and otherwise)
art
music
psychedelics
online forums (tribe!)
etc...

It would be a book that is both somewhat campy and tongue-in-cheek, as well as serious. Hi-brow and low-brow at the same time.

This idea is still very much in the early stages of development, and I am seeking any and all opinions, ideas, & thoughts on it. Think it is brilliant? Lemme know? Stupid? Bring it on! Whatever you think I'd love to hear it. figure EH would be an ideal place to get some honest and useful feedback.

I am thinking it would be an actual paper book, not just an e-book (I still loves me some readin' via good old paper), now that there are so many cheap ways of self-publishing out there (lulu.com, First Books, Amazon, etc.)

bring it!!

-beb

posted in Extreme Honesty - 19 replies

50 years of memories

Charles — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 04:24:14 GMT

Last night on the news there was a story about a man who'd been shot in a robbery. Apparently, one man waited as another man withdrew money from a cash machine and then shot him and took the money. There was a clip of the victim's daughter being interviewed, understandably grieving and quite emotional, pleading for someone to come forward with information about the killing because the police had no leads in the case.

The first thing she said, bloating out quite emphatically, was that, "Someone has stolen fifty years of my father's memories". I don't think I had ever heard a person's grieving expressed in quite this way, and for some reason her characterization of her pain using these words really moved me, and I realized that I'd never thought about the loss of someone in those terms.

posted in Extreme Honesty - 8 replies

Coolest Heart Attack Ever!

revjoshua — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:40:41 GMT

So my sister had a heart attack two weeks ago while I was visiting her on vacation. I swear to Superman AND Optimus Prime it wasn't my fault. She's doing quite well now and didn't suffer any permanent damage. But what's awesome about the whole ordeal is that it brought forth one of the few family traditions we have: Dealing with bad shit in a funny way.

By way of for instance my wife and I came home one Wednesday about four years ago to find that somebody had stolen all of our DVDs, TV, Stereo, and eaten a bulk of our Mint Chocolate Chip Ice Cream, leaving the rest to melt on our table. We never found the bastards or our goodies but that following Saturday we DID have a We Got Robbed Party. Good times.

So to snap out of the flashback, we come to today, when I got an email from my sister with the link below. Once she got out of the hospital I was encouraging her to milk the heart attack for all it's worth. All you have to do is clutch your chest and yell, "Muh heeart!" and people would give you their spot in line, go where ever you want to go for dinner, or even do your taxes. When you have a bum ticker the world is your oyster! She won't make a dime from these sales, it's just an awesome way to have a sweet reminder and a before and after photo of her corazon.

http://www.cafepress.com/MuhHeart

posted in Extreme Honesty - 4 replies

"Female Chauvinist Pigs"

wildapache — Fri, 23 May 2008 23:37:12 GMT

The idea behind the female chauvinistic pig is to be like "one of the guys" by beating men to the punch, taking advantage of feminine sexuality and making sex objects of other women. But the question is why do straight women want to see strippers pole dance? Levy said it's because women don't want to be excluded from anything.

In the book, she looks at different women in the entertainment and business world -- "loophole" women -- who want to be looked at as powerful and take the shortcut of identifying with a man, rather than trying to elevate the female gender. These women think of themselves as post-feminists, they get it. However, the author notes that while these women see womanhood as something to escape from, in reality, they'll be seen as lesser for trying to escape their gender. When trying to get ahead "like a man," she claims women aspire to be Nathan Lane and Iggy Pop. Who is the mythical man we'll aspire to be? Michael Jackson? Arnold Schwarzenegger?

Levy studies the many contradictions behind this supposedly raunch feminism and questions the idea that showing off your 'ass'-ets is real power and liberation. Although women are catching up with men in sexual prowess, men don't have to pull a Marky Mark and parade around in their underwear to get noticed."

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2005/12/12-02-05tdc/12-02-05darts-03.asp

"Reading "Female Chauvinist Pigs," Ariel Levy's lively polemic, gave me an epiphany of sorts. Finally, a coherent interpretation of an array of phenomena I'd puzzled over in recent years: the way Paris Hilton's leaked sex tapes seemed only to enhance her career; the horrifying popularity of vaginoplasty, a surgical procedure designed to make female genitalia more sightly; and a spate of mainstream books about stripping and other sex work, some reviewed in these pages. Levy has a theory that makes sense of all this. Our popular culture, she argues, has embraced a model of female sexuality that comes straight from pornography and strip clubs, in which the woman's job is to excite and titillate - to perform for men. According to Levy, women have bought into this by altering their bodies surgically and cosmetically, and - more insidiously - by confusing sexual power with power, so that embracing this caricaturish form of sexuality becomes, in their minds, a perverse kind of feminism."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/18/books/review/18egan.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

posted in Extreme Honesty - 249 replies

This is totally going to be a movie... and may already be one!

tangerine23 — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 19:25:20 GMT

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080606/broadcom_indictment.html

posted in Extreme Honesty - 3 replies

The state of the Corporate Union

JSin — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 06:19:06 GMT

5 page article on the history and state of affairs of the United Corporate fascist States of America

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20080531_the_corporate_state_and_the_subversion_of_democracy/

JSin

posted in Extreme Honesty - 0 replies

New co-habitation experiment

Kryssa — Sun, 18 May 2008 04:51:16 GMT

My sweetie and I have decided to try living together. There are many practical reasons for this that have to do with business ventures (two so far) and such, but obviously we're both looking forward to moving things to 'the next level' emotionally and romantically.

Anyway, some interesting dialog has come up around this and I thought I'd share it with all you honest folks.

The one thing that has never worked so well for me in prior cohabitation with partners situations is my lack of privacy and personal time. I tend to need a lot, I suppose. I can't stand feeling like someone is always right there demanding my time or watching over my shoulder as I read a book, write in my journal, work on the computer or play online. I also can't stand feeling like I'm intruding on someone else if I happen to wake up at 3am with some brilliant (or not-so-brilliant) thought that demands I immediately get up and write it down. Or those nights I just plain can't sleep for whatever reason...I need to be able to get up and do whatever it is need to do until I'm ready for sleep again without fearing that I'm keeping someone else up.

He has similar privacy issues, but not quite the same. He's far more social than I am and almost always has plans to do stuff with other folks on a near nightly basis. In the past he's felt the need to stifle this because his live in partners either didn't want to be involved or because they become jealous and possessive and paranoid of his time 'away'.

So, we've decided to have separate bedrooms but still share in all of the dynamics and magic of living together. If he happens to fall asleep in my bed I have permission to kick him out when I get those bouts of insomnia and he has a comfortable place to go without feeling like he's being reprimanded or 'sent away'. And if I happen to fall asleep in his bed I have the option of leaving...and of course he can always ask me to leave as well but once he falls asleep he's pretty much a rock for at least 8 hours.

In theory this seems to work for us on so many levels. I have to get up early to take my kiddo's to school and he shouldn't have to deal with that every morning. His kiddo's are older and don't need the same morning attention as mine do. He also tends to stay up later than I do (most nights) and this way we can still have fun hanging out together, have great sex whenever we want, but not feel obligated to fit into each others sleeping/waking schedules. And if either of us just wants or needs some 'space' we both have it at all times.

Anyway, he's not moving in til mid-June so I have no idea how this experiment will actually play out but I am incredibly EXCITED! My mother, oldest daughter and a few friends think it's nuts, but oh well.

We've decided to do a 3 month trial run and check in with each other periodically to see how it's going between now and then. (which I think everyone should do anyway)

-K

posted in Extreme Honesty - 24 replies

Stolen political sign

Kryssa — Fri, 09 May 2008 05:23:26 GMT

I had a Clinton sign in my front yard for about 5 hours before it got stolen. I notice that my neighbor's all have Obama signs. So sad. Is this what;s it;s come down to? It's not even about Pub's vs Dem's; it's Dem's vs. Dem's.

So I find myself supporting the underdog once again...but you Obama supporters make this quite easy, don't you? Keep it up. Really. Fucking keep it up and we'll see just how childish America's "Elite" really are. Stealing political signs? C'mon. Where is the LOVE?!?!?!?

-K

posted in Extreme Honesty - 31 replies

Clinton Interveiw

bitermonkey — Thu, 08 May 2008 20:32:19 GMT

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-05-07-clintoninterview_N.htm

Second paragraph- do you think that what she said could be called a racist statement? I am just curious, not trying to start a politic flame war.

Or am I?

;-)

posted in Extreme Honesty - 33 replies

Is the only reason for exclusion fear ?

Bloke72 — Thu, 22 May 2008 18:06:27 GMT

saddha >> I have not yet seen exclusion that was not based on fear <<

With 73 replies in the other thread "When is it harmful exclusion" http://extremehonesty.tribe.net/thread/e9ed6897-7284-4412-a8d4-106fb220eac0 If folks want to talk about this - perhaps another thread is best..

Me - I don't think the only reason for exclusion is fear. I don't include my friends on my dates.. that's not fear..

posted in Extreme Honesty - 22 replies

When is it harmful exclusion?

Foxybrown — Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:31:37 GMT

So recently this issue has come up for me again and I am wanting to explore it a bit and hear what others think. People seem to have a wide range of opinions of what constitutes exclusion. I think literally anything that doesn't include anyone and everyone is exclusive but doesn't that mean we all practice exclusion? To me it is a question of whether or not what we do can be defined as harmful exclusion.

Example: I used to go to a beach camp out up north to gathering of friends that happened once a month - mostly Burners but not just Burners. There was usually at least 100-200 of us each time. When I was pregnant there were two other friends who were as well. Towards the end of our pregnancies one of the ladies arranged a woman's circle on the beach (away from the camp) to bless the pregnant ladies in their journey into motherhood and discuss issues of birthing and womanhood. A little hippy dippy for me usually but these are people I dig so I totally support their good intentions.
Anyway cutting the story short, after the weekend wrapped up some of the men complained on Monday that they were not invited into the women's circle and that it was gender and sex exclusion and how would we women feel if that was done to us? Of course most of us women said, "next camp you should totally do a men's circle if you want to, we support it! and also make a both gender circle if you want to." Some dudes totally accepted this answer, some dudes want nothing to do with any type of circle but the response from some of the guys was, "that is not the point why should we have exclusive circles at all? Exclusion is wrong yada yada! Your are enforcing stereotypical gender roles" This went on and some of us just felt like it was a bit ridiculous while others seem to take it all too seriously. Interestingly enough none of the expectant dads expressed feeling left out.
Recently I have seen a similar issue come up in a tribe that was specifically for mamas. A man showed up, not all mamas wanted him there and discussions of exclusion arose. Of course again there are plenty of tribes for both parents and nothing stopping a man from starting a dad tribe.
So I have to wonder is this really harmful exclusion? Can it be compared to segregation and all kinds of other historic ills of the world? I have friends that belong to tribes about being gay. Should I feel excluded if I am not totally wanted there? Does being equal and wanting a just world mean we have to give up special communications or bonds we have with others because they leave someone else out? Where is the line?
Thoughts?

posted in Extreme Honesty - 76 replies

Coloured People

Thirty Nine — Wed, 21 May 2008 07:46:54 GMT

I’m having my home interior painted and have decided on some pretty bold colours. I have a green lounge room, a candy pink bedroom, a yellow room, a red room and a hot pink hallway.

My painter remarked that when he went to buy the candy pink paint that the retailer commented: “That’s a beautiful colour for a little girl’s bedroom.”
The painter replied: “This is a big little girl.”

So there are some pretty strong assumptions related to colours. I get this, but it’s got me questioning: Why do some colours become unsuitable as we age?

Further, a colleague asked me about my colours at a work morning tea and I told him. The whole table was silent in response. I commented lightly: “They’re not for everyone.”
Someone responded, jokingly: ”You picked up on that, did you?”

It didn’t really bother me because I was not at all surprised by this reaction. I consider them to be beige people. Ok, actually they’re blue - but you get the drift. They’re blue because awhile back I noted that virtually every poster they presented was in a nice navy blue background. It didn’t have to be, it could have been any colour….So there’s a uniformity there, dare I say, a conformity. And safety.

So back to beige people. I think most of the people I know and interact with are nice beige people. I feel like there’s a bit of prejudice against coloured people.

posted in Extreme Honesty - 29 replies

Is foster care a step up or a step down for these kids?

Foxybrown — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 21:17:52 GMT

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7353304.stm

The kids in the polygamist compound are subjects of custody hearings now. I can't help but wonder if going into foster care wouldn't be worse for some of these children. They have mothers who love them for better or worse. Still growing up in that compound has subjected them to brainwashing and subjected the females to abuse as they enter their teen years. Something had to be done to help those girls but now that the compound has been raided is it really beneficial to keep the young children away from the mothers? Considering how isolated from the world they have been many of them are probably very frightened right now. In many ways their mothers are just victims themselves.

This raises a lot of questions about how laws about morals and families are defined in this country. Personally I don't have any problem with polygamy if it were to occur between consenting adults. Unfortunately that isn't what was happening in this cult.

I am just wondering given the huge issues with foster care in this country if placing these kids in that system isn't going to fuck them up more?

posted in Extreme Honesty - 26 replies

Any natural redheads here?

Kryssa — Fri, 16 May 2008 02:33:42 GMT

Well, prepare to be the last of your kind.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22289183-2,00.html?from=public_rss

"Gingers extinct in 100 years, say scientists

August 23, 2007 02:00am
Article from: The Courier-Mail

Font size: + -

Send this article: Print Email

REDHEADS are becoming rarer and could be extinct in 100 years, according to genetic scientists.

The current National Geographic magazine reports that less than two per cent of the world's population has natural red hair, created by a mutation in northern Europe thousands of years ago.

Global intermingling, which broadens the availability of possible partners, has reduced the chances of redheads meeting and producing little redheads of their own.

It takes only one red-haired parent to produce ginger-headed babies, but two redheads obviously create a much stronger possibility."

-K

(perhaps we should create our own "Red Headed League"...some of you may recall this league from a certain series of detective novels)

posted in Extreme Honesty - 39 replies

seeking millionaire

kalsang — Sat, 29 Mar 2008 01:33:49 GMT

Ugh, that's a nasty new ad I have on my screen.
"Seeking Millionaire. High end dating: Always free for beautiful single girls."
Showing a silver haired chap in a suit with a smiley young blond.
[Nausea]

posted in Extreme Honesty - 43 replies

Stop deleting threads!

Foxybrown — Tue, 13 May 2008 15:27:50 GMT

If you don't like what people have to say then don't post here in the first place. Deleting threads is bullshit. Once you have posted a topic and other people have responded then it is a conversation that belongs to us all and deleting it is pure selfishness.

I shouldn't even have to say this after all this time. Geesh!

posted in Extreme Honesty - 22 replies

Super-somethings....

Kryssa — Tue, 13 May 2008 05:56:55 GMT

Okay, alright...I admit that I actually have committed most of Spidey's plights and travails to memory (both the comic book and the animated series, but not so much the movies) and so if it comes as any sort of surprise to any of you that, yes, I really am that much of a geek, then shame on you for not suspecting it. And with all the current hoopla over Iron Man (loves me some Robert Downey, Jr!) I just had t post this.

Anyway, I have a dear friend who has taken it upon himself to create a *super* of ME. YEAH!!!!!! He''s a graphic designer first and a web designer next. Incredibly talented but also fun (obviously).

Anyway, according to my friend (Brian-the-often-great) my *super* name is "Crimson". I am neither good nor evil, preferring to wait til the last moment to pick a side that fits with my own twisted principles. My greatest power is that I can make anyone adopt my point of view, but I have to actually look in their eyes to do this. Doesn't work so well on the blind or those wearing laser enhanced eyewear. (And as we all know every power comes with some debilitating weakness). My second power is that I can seduce damn near anyone...without meaning to sometimes. Therein lies the internal conflict that all *supers* must have (unless you're a multi-billionaire with nothiing but time and money and self-created psychosis, but I digress...fucking bats). I never know when I'm unintentionally seducing someone, but have at least learned how to harness this power enough to do it intentionally and on an as-needed basis only. (haha)

I have long, curly red hair and a ruby red (or crimson) suit with a matching corset and bull whip. I don't really know what to do with the bull whip yet, but I'll figure it out. I'm not necessarily a scrappy fighter, preferring instead to rely on my years in ballet to lull my arch enemies right before my tourje tet becomes a swift kick to the larynx. I asked him to find a way to give me many lengths of red, silken rope so I can then tie up my enemies in rather aesthetically pleasing ways-- so they don't quite know if they like it or (k)not. (Until it's too late...muahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!)

Anyway, this was so much fun that I just had to ask what other folks alter-supers might be.

-K

posted in Extreme Honesty - 45 replies

Happy Mother's Day

Betcha — Sun, 11 May 2008 18:20:10 GMT

To all the mother's out there.
May you get back all the love you have given multiplied infinitely;
today and every day.
Betcha

posted in Extreme Honesty - 5 replies

correcting an error

Charles — Wed, 07 May 2008 15:35:14 GMT

Recently I saw an interaction on another tribe where in quoting a portion of another's post - one member corrected a typo of the person she was in more-or-less a dialog with. The other member thanked her for the correction, but I couldn't tell if her comment was an actual thank-you or gently pointing out that a small manifestation of dominance had gone down.

Now, on occasion, I've found that I (when quoting someone) have corrected minor typos of others. The interaction between the other two people made me think about whether I was doing the right thing. I know this might be considered a trivial issue, yet it was one that made me think about it.

Any thoughts?

posted in Extreme Honesty - 63 replies

oddly quiet

kalsang — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 05:24:50 GMT

Well, these days EH is the living proof that if you chase away all the loonies, weirdos, shit-stirrers and turd-slingers, life gets really really quiet. It's like a suburb after 10 round here...where the hell are the all-nighters? Those who used to slap a martini on the keyboard and have at it till the wee hours?
phweeeeeiiiiiiiii --> that's the sound of me whistling in the dark out here, all by myself. Kinda spooky.

posted in Extreme Honesty - 38 replies

I have to fire a good friend...or, she was

Kryssa — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 05:57:28 GMT

It's necessary and justified but I'm finding myself in a state of near emotional paralysis over having to do this.

The very fact that I've spent over 5 minutes attempting to post the details of this situation, and deleted everything I wrote and re-wrote, is a huge red flag for me. Usually I'm quite verbose and have no problem finding ways to express myself. This one has me tangled up in a big ol knot.

help

-K

posted in Extreme Honesty - 15 replies

Pissing Contest

Foxybrown — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 16:43:55 GMT

Since so many of the threads seem to degenerate into one I think we should just start a thread with one.

I can write my name in the snow and even dot the "i" and I don't even have a penis. This proves I am better, smarter and always more right (even if it is not a right or wrong topic) than you so there!

posted in Extreme Honesty - 83 replies

Once the monster is out, there's no going back

Kryssa — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:43:53 GMT

My sweetie and I just had a row (2 days ago). In my mind it wasn't a big, grandiose row but in his mind it apparently was. His response was to first abandon the conversation saying that he didn't have "the time or energy for negative discourse" and later (the next day) to tell me he was beginning to think we shouldn't be together at all on a personal/romantic/sexual level. (We have some professional dealings together that we can't just walk away from at this point).

Anyway, now that he's offered this *threat* of ending the personal I just don't see any way to get back to that place of trust (I thought) we had. If we choose to work through this I will always be aware that this threat, or ultimatum, lurks behind every corner. It all started with something relatively innocuous and insignificant, but it was important enough for me to point out. My pointing it out has apparently caused him to want out. His defensiveness seemed completely disproportionate to the issue at hand, but perhaps he was already looking for a way out? I don't know. Just a few days ago he said he loved me and we discussed him moving in with me (sooner than I would've liked, but his landlord gave him an eviction notice cuz she wants to move back into the house he's been renting for the past 5 years and I thought it might be a good way to get back on his feet, so to speak...even if only temporarily, and I offered him the attic space so we'd still have separate bedrooms).

ANyway, he's since threatened to end it all.

Once that monster is out there, as a threat or ultimatum, there's really no way to gain back the trust. If we go forth and try again I will always be acutely aware that he might take off at the slightest provocation. If I say "good bye" then I won;t be looking back. That's MY m.o.

-K

posted in Extreme Honesty - 29 replies

THE ANATOMY OF SARCASM

Kryssa — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 02:35:04 GMT

WASHINGTON — "The ability to comprehend sarcasm depends upon a carefully orchestrated sequence of complex cognitive skills based in specific parts of the brain. Yeah, right, and I’m the Tooth Fairy. But it’s true: New research details an “anatomy of sarcasm” that explains how the mind puts sharp-tongued words into context. The findings appear in the May issue of Neuropsychology, published by the American Psychological Association (APA)."

So, apparently the inability to perceive and understand sarcasm is linked to damage to the prefrontal cortex of the brain.

I just found this...um...interesting. And I mean that sincerely.

-K

posted in Extreme Honesty - 23 replies

when honest IS negative

Wanderingwolf — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:36:18 GMT

so what about when you TRULY think someone is ugly? or evil, or an asshole, or anything like that, when did we become a society that beleives that all negativity is BAD? WTF is up with that? what about when if you DONT tell someone that such and so is evil or is ugly or an asshole ? HAve we forgoten how much harm comes when everyone beleives everything is unicorns and rainbows? my god, the world we live in is NUTS and i thikn its about damn time we stopped feeling so damn PC and SAID so. im not condoning complaining or giving license to complainers , im just saying maybe we should realy trhink about what honesty means and call it like we see it, so far, the world looks to me like its going down the shitter, or rather AMerica is. just mho

posted in Extreme Honesty - 18 replies

Beijing prepares for Olympics... by killing cats?

nicole_c — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:13:58 GMT

Thoughts?

Olympics clean-up Chinese style: Inside Beijings shocking death camp for cats
By SIMON PERRY - More by this author » Last updated at 17:15pm on 12th March 2008

Thousands of pet cats in Beijing are being abandoned by their owners and sent to die in secretive government pounds as China mounts an aggressive drive to clean up the capital in preparation for the Olympic Games.

Hundreds of cats a day are being rounded and crammed into cages so small they cannot even turn around.

Then they are trucked to what animal welfare groups describe as death camps on the edges of the city.

The cull comes in the wake of a government campaign warning of the diseases cats carry and ordering residents to help clear the streets of them.

Cat owners, terrified by the disease warning, are dumping their pets in the streets to be picked up by special collection teams.

Paranoia is so intense that six stray cats -including two pregnant females - were beaten to death with sticks by teachers at a Beijing kindergarten, who feared they might pass illnesses to the children.

China's leaders are convinced that animals pose a serious urban health risk and may have contributed to the outbreak of SARS - a deadly respiratory virus - in 2003.

But the crackdown on cats is seen by animal campaigners as just one of a number of extreme measures being taken by communist leaders to ensure that its capital appears clean, green and welcoming during the Olympics.

Polluting factories in and around the city are being ordered to shut down or relocate during the Games to ease Beijing's choking smog and drivers are allowed out on to the roads only three times a week.

Fares on the city's underground network have been cut to just two yuan (14p) for any journey - a six-fold reduction on some routes - to keep people off buses, and beggars and street sleepers are being moved to out-of-town camps or given train fares back to their home provinces.

Meanwhile, taxi drivers have been made to attend lessons in how to greet passengers politely in English and a city-wide courtesy campaign has been launched to teach Beijing's notoriously dour and grumpy citizens how to smile and be pleasant to foreigners.

The cull of Beijing's estimated 500,000 cat population is certain to provoke international outrage as it comes just over a year after the Chinese were criticised for rounding up and killing stray dogs across the country.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=528694&in_page_id=1811

posted in Extreme Honesty - 16 replies

Extreme Honesty = innocent man in prison for 26years.

Edward — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 13:47:02 GMT

Dale Coventry, and W. Jamie Kunz, attorneys for Andrew Wilson, had their client voluntary confess to them he had killed a security guard. While another man, Alton Logan, was on trial for just that murder. Due to attorney/client privilege, the two lawyers kept their mouths shut, although telling the attorney representing Logan "You represent an innocent man."

They kept their fingers crossed during Logan's trial, concerned about a possible death sentence. Logan was sentenced to life, so they continued to remain silent until Wilson passed away in 2007. Then, they came forward with the confession. Of course Logan is still in jail as the case is being reviewed.

Strikes me there's something way off here. But, I'm not sure there was any fair way out for the two attorneys.

60 minutes story here: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/06/60minutes/main3914719.shtml

posted in Extreme Honesty - 48 replies

heroes

tangerine23 — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 20:29:28 GMT

Who are your heroes and why? Do you think that the fine tooth comb with which we examine public figures takes away any chance of certain people being looked at as heroes? Would MLK be a hero had his philandering been a big deal when he was alive?

posted in Extreme Honesty - 15 replies

Child Free vs With Child

Foxybrown — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 19:01:02 GMT

Why are people so polarized about this topic? I don't get it. I know plenty of friends who don't want children. I don't like to assume it is because they hate children, one of my best friends is a teacher and loves children but just doesn't want any. Good for her, I say. I respect that if someone doesn't want a child they should not have one. I get the whole push for zero population but hey I am also a mom and I love being a mom. Why are people so black and white about this issue? I respect other people's choices.....however I don't respect people who rant about wanting a child free society or make fun of breeders (for just having a child - there are types of breeders even I can't stand) and make remarks about how klds are nasty little brats.
Kids are a part of society. We were all children once. There is just no getting around that. I usually feel a bit sad for people who actually hate kids because I think it has something to do with them hating their own childhood. Also how is it OK to hate on any significant portion of society whether they be kids, jews, whites, blacks or whomever. I find that trippy. Maybe I am seeing this the wrong way though. I'd love to hear what others think about this.

posted in Extreme Honesty - 101 replies

Sally Kern Says "Gays Are Worse Than Terrorists"

beki — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 01:04:31 GMT

This has been circulating around the net over the past week or so and I wanted to share it here.

Sally Kerns, Oklahoma lawmaker, was recorded during a speech she thought was heard by a "small group" of 350 supporters behind closed doors. This is what she said...

"Homosexuality is a bigger threat to our nation than terrorism or Islam.” She continued that “According to God words, it is not the right kind of lifestyle….Gays are infiltrating city councils…. It’s deadly and its spreading, and it will destroy our young people, and it will destroy this nation.”

For the whole recording you can go to the following link on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T_7s3x4JoQ

I was impressed by a letter written in response to her words by a young man whose mother was killed in the terrorist attack on the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. He was stopped by a highway patrol man when trying to deliver his letter to Sally Kern but his Aunt has shared his words with the public...

Rep Kern:

On April 19, 1995, in Oklahoma City a terrorist detonated a bomb that killed my mother and 167 others. 19 children died that day. Had I not had the chicken pox that day, the body count would've likely have included one more. Over 800 other Oklahomans were injured that day and many of those still suffer through their permanent wounds.

That terrorist was neither a homosexual or was he involved in Islam. He was an extremist Christian forcing his views through a body count. He held his beliefs and made those who didn't live up to them pay with their lives. As you were not a resident of Oklahoma on that day, it could be explained why you so carelessly chose words saying that the homosexual agenda is worst than terrorism. I can most certainly tell you through my own experience that is not true. I am sure there are many people in your voting district that laid a loved one to death after the terrorist attack on Oklahoma City. I kind of doubt you'll find one of them that will agree with you.

I was five years old when my mother died. I remember what a beautiful, wise, and remarkable woman she was. I miss her. Your harsh words and misguided beliefs brought me to tears, because you told me that my mother's killer was a better person than a group of people that are seeking safety and tolerance for themselves. As someone left motherless and victimized by terrorists, I say to you very clearly you are absolutely wrong.

You represent a district in Oklahoma City and you very coldly express a lack of love, sympathy or understanding for what they've been through. Can I ask if you might have chosen wiser words were you a real Oklahoman that was here to share the suffering with Oklahoma City? Might your heart be a bit less cold had you been around to see the small bodies of children being pulled out of rubble and carried away by weeping firemen?

I've spent 12 years in Oklahoma public schools and never once have I had anyone try to force a gay agenda on me. I have seen, however, many gay students beat up and there's never a day in school that has went by when I haven't heard the word **** slung at someone. I've been called gay slurs many times and they hurt and I am not even gay so I can just imagine how a real gay person feels. You were a school teacher and you have seen those things too. How could you care so little about the suffering of some of your students?

Let me tell you the result of your words in my school. Every openly gay and suspected gay in the school were having to walk together Monday for protection. They looked scared. They've already experienced enough hate and now your words gave other students even more motivation to sneer at them and call them names. Afterall, you are a teacher and a lawmaker, many young people have taken your words to heart. That happens when you assume a role of responsibility in your community. I seriously think before this week ends that some kids here will be going home bruised and bloody because of what you said.

I wish you could've met my mom. Maybe she could've guided you in how a real Christian should be acting and speaking. I have not had a mother for nearly 13 years now and wonder if there were fewer people like you around, people with more love and tolerance in their hearts instead of strife, if my mom would be here to watch me graduate from high school this spring. Now she won't be there. So I'll be packing my things and leaving Oklahoma to go to college elsewhere and one day be a writer and I have no intentions to ever return here. I have no doubt that people like you will incite crazy people to build more bombs and kill more people again. I don't want to be here for that. I just can't go through that again.

You may just see me as a kid, but let me try to teach you something. The old saying is sticks and stones will break your bones, but words will never hurt you. Well, your words hurt me. Your words disrespected the memory of my mom. Your words can cause others to pick up sticks and stones and hurt others.

Sincerely

Tucker

posted in Extreme Honesty - 34 replies

Easter

Kryssa — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 23:10:30 GMT

That's the one where we celebrate the chocolate rabbits that helped move the boulder out of the way so that zombie Jesus could stalk out into the glow of the yellow sun and regain his super powers, right?

Come on now, everyone knows it was the pagan goddess Eostre who moved that stone...not chocolate rabbits.

Silly rabbits. Tricks are for messiah's.

-K

(from my blog)

posted in Extreme Honesty - 11 replies

sub-prime

kalsang — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:47:26 GMT

OK, I have to say this, even if brands me forever as a shit.

But Good God almighty. Over the last few years, I searched somewhat desperately for a house I could afford in the Bay Area. A modest one bedroom in an area not infested with gun-shooting drug gangs. But the mortgages I could afford were all adjustable, and when I read the small print over cursorily I could see that after the first year or so, they were going to GO UP. So as a result, I used my BRAIN and didn't take one.

The result is, I am still trapped in the rent hole, paying 1500 a month to RENT a one bedroom.

Now I see that a bunch of fucking idiots who failed to think ahead and THINK, are going to be bailed out and GIVEN MONEY to stay in the houses they bought without considering that they couldn't afford it. Talk about penalising good sense and thrift, and rewarding idiocy and lack of forethought.

I am disgusted.

posted in Extreme Honesty - 7 replies

Touchstones: From Extreme World Domination

JSin — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 22:24:51 GMT

Are there any "Touchstones you use to decide if someone is likely to be compatible with you be it friends, lovers or partners what have ya.

Some movies that tend to tell me a lot about someone are:
Phantom of the Paradise
The Princess Bride
The Boondock Saints
Any Mel Brooks Movie
Any Monty Python Movie

Musicians:
Leonard Cohan
Lou Reed and The Velvet Underground
Red Hot Chili Peppers
George Clinton and Parliament Funkadelic

Visual Arts:
Marcel DuChamp
Pollock
Van Gogh

How a person responds to these tells me a lot about their sensibilities and their interactions with "reality" as it were
Are there tools you utilize to figure out folks out?

JSin

posted in Extreme Honesty - 19 replies

horrible or not?

wildapache — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 00:20:55 GMT

stumbled across this while browsing around Flickr

i don't like it - at all
my first reaction was to thing that it was wrong, very wrong.
but is it really?

is it just tasteless and crass, but harmless?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/heatherwhitephoto/1526151076/

posted in Extreme Honesty - 8 replies

anyone believe in astrology?

harold — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 00:42:50 GMT

this week i went thru the effort of trying to learn something about myself by using astrology. if youre interested - it is fairly simple to plug in your date/time/place of birth into astro.com and itll give you this cool chart like ive uploaded into my own photos, (a circle with all the signs in a ring on the outside - and then your planets with criss-cross lines along the inside).

of course nothing ever seems to be easy for me - i didnt know my exact time of birth. so i went thru the process of changing my birth time in 2-hr increments to see what changes it predicted for my "ascendant". after reading all the possibilities, i chose a couple that seemed closest to my own perception of myself - and will carry on with my "studies" from there...

it seems it is really easy to find ways that astrology predicts things that apply to us. heck, i think im self-contradictory-enough that almost ANY prediction/description might apply eventually...

have any of yall decided and/or chosen NOT to believe in astrology? was it because the predictions/descriptions were innacurate? or was it for some other reason?

i think it is fun to look at the predictions/descriptions astrology provides. do i truly BELIEVE in it? well, no, not really. but it doesnt seem to cause any harm. does it?

posted in Extreme Honesty - 34 replies

Seating Arrangements

Thirty Nine — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 01:55:08 GMT

From my blog:
I just got back from my cousin's wedding a couple of days ago and have been wondering atthe seating arrangments since.

To my great consternation he had decided to place his uncle’s former wife at the main groom’s family table and his uncle and his new wife in a corner at some unknown (to them) friend’s table. I was very curious as to the logic of this because I knew that my cousin had not even planned to invite his ‘former’ aunt. He was bludgeoned into it by the wider family who felt it very undiplomatic to exclude the woman who had been his aunt for 30 years. On the other hand he is very close to his uncle who is the main father figure in his life. And yet here he was giving the despised aunt the privileged and by all measures unrightful spot at the family table. A situation that could easily have been reworked to a much more satisfying arrangement. How could my cousin not see the inappropriateness of the seating arrangements?

posted in Extreme Honesty - 34 replies

Extreme world domination

Foxybrown — Thu, 30 Mar 2006 00:59:24 GMT

Nah.....just kidding. I just wanted a new thread.

So, seen any good movies lately?

posted in Extreme Honesty - 59 replies

sidebar- not sure what's up, but...

heidealist — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 05:27:02 GMT

I wanted to cc y'all on a note I just sent to someone who felt, shall we say, slighted by EH and emailed me to try to intercede. I'm not putting names, but you might be able to figure it out. Basically- just wanted to post it so none of my words could be used against me, somehow, to get me more involved. Please don't use this as an opportunity to flame someone who already feels hurt. "This is a moment in time- let it pass." (Something my super-groovy substitute says to students when they're upset.)

Honestly, I am still a bit aghast (mostly in a good way) at where EH ended up, size & scope-wise. As I say below, I really can't get more involved than I already am by posting this.

Hope y'all keep trucking honestly along.

*****CC starts here*****

Is it true that you just joined Tribe in Feburary? How did you manage to get into the middle of such net-politics so quickly, I wonder?

Honestly (no pun intended) I backed away slowly from the Extreme Honesty tribe a few years ago when it had already become a larger-than-life can of worms. It had grown far beyond my intentions for it (which had been quite minimal) and become a place I personally was enjoying less and less. I saw that others seemed to be getting quite a bit out of it still, and so found someone I trusted to take over so that my leaving didn't kill it. I occasionally look over there and find a discussion of interest, but as a new mom and elementary school teacher, I'm already living 3 and a half lives full, and don't have time or energy to get involved. Sorry- that's just where I'm at right now.

I always hated cliques in high school, and I'm sad to see that you feel like that's the dominating paradigm over there.

****cc ends here****

posted in Extreme Honesty - 5 replies

can human beings be honest?

diode — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:40:39 GMT

Studies of human beings by sociobiologists say that humans tell the truth mostly when it suits their interests. Most people tell several lies every day, whether you call that shading the truth, omitting it, or altering the facts to suit a more favorable outcome for the teller.

A recent study found teenagers, for example, routinely telling 10-20 lies a day.

Our biological makeup is designed to increase our survivability, meaning inclusive fitness with our group. Studies show people persistently find their group (meaning team, nation, company and so forth) to be the 'good' guys while the other group in competition to be the bad guys. The end result is that you don't even see violations or misdeeds by your group while calling foul on the other guy. You can see this process in national politics, in racial strife, team sports, just about anywhere there are two or more people interacting competitively.

We have objective means to measure the truth. If there's a red apple on my desk, and I call it an orange, then either I'm irrational, lying or maybe color blind with bad eyesight.

My take: it's in my self-interest to tell the truth consistently as it leads to better outcomes with my group and anyone I do business with, however, I am not above shading the truth or omitting or withholding the truth in my self-interest. I believe the same is true for everyone but the actual behavior may vary widely from person to person between very truthful to very deceiful.

I'm aware my biology will persistently bias my perceptions in my favor, and that this is the same for everyone. Also, that I have no way of detecting the 'truthfulness' of another person except through their consistent behavior over time. While I think of myself as a honest person, I'm not above lying if the stakes are high enough (personal survival for example). I also think that's true of everyone.

posted in Extreme Honesty - 9 replies

Money and Happiness

Foxybrown — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:10:21 GMT

http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2008/03/12/wilkinson_happiness

I heard this on the news this morning when I was driving to work. So how much does money influence your happiness (if at all)?

posted in Extreme Honesty - 20 replies

Plan my life for me!

Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:29:34 GMT

>This lack of fresh meat being thrown into the pen <

Okay, here's some fodder for your mill. It might even give Josh something to argue with me about. I am at a crossroads in my life and would appreciate all you brilliant peoples' input (and even the not-so-brilliant ones).

I have to choose between going on an extended sailing trip (2-3 years) with my 11 year old son, moving in with my girlfriend of 3 years which means moving my son out of the area he's lived in since he was 1, or staying in the area where my son is from and working as a single dad with my girlfriend (who is the most snuggly and smart girl and perfect in everyway) being 3 hours away. She is tied there by her son and her ex. She was going to sail with us, but she decided, and I agreed, that her son needed her to be more involved in his life. His father is opposed to taking him with us.

The down side to the sailing trip is I would not have an income for that time. I have approximately $90K saved up, so I could make it financially, but 69K of this I had put aside for my son's education or getting started in life. I am concerned that I will end up spending some or all of this money by the time we get back, leaving me back on the hamsterwheel of paycheck to paycheck (been there, don't wanna do that again.) I also feel like the way the economy is going, I will have to be an active money manager to keep from having it drop in value and there are going to be great opportunites to make a bunch more if I am in a position to move the money around and keep on top of it. Don't think I'll do this in Micronesia. The boat also needs some work and I don't have crew right now.

I wake up everyday sure of what I am going to do, and then go to sleep and do a 180. I've gotten some good advice on my blog, but I thought some of you may have ideas that I have overlooked. Okay, to tie this into the Extreme Honesty them; I thought it might be an interesting insight into decision making and values.

posted in Extreme Honesty - 45 replies

What do you dislike about EH?

Alexyana — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 03:15:38 GMT

*ahem*

Since we're all spending our time away from here, it seems kinda safe to assume that most of us dislike something about this tribe or don't get something from it. I'm curious, what *don't* people like about EH?

I dislike that there are quite a too many pimps and hoes who are straight pussyfoot kind of people.

But seriously, what I dislike the most is the brilliant sarcasm of tribe's title and mission statement.

posted in Extreme Honesty - 37 replies

Using "honesty" as a manipulative tactic

Kryssa — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 21:39:17 GMT

...which is obviously not really honesty (imo).

I've run into it a few times. Basically, it goes something like this:

"I don't like that you're doing this or that, and if you don't cut it out I'm leaving. Hey look, I'm just being honest with you."

Except that there doesn't really seem to be any intention to leave, it's just a poorly veiled threat/ ultimatum used to attempt to control someone's behavior. My ex did this regularly.

Seems to me that some folks just can't resist using "honesty" in this twisted way and I have no idea how to deal with it other than calling their bluff...which only creates more conflict. I had tried the open communication path, but when someone is so convinced that they're being "honest", even if/when their motives aren't in keeping with their words, it's just damn near impossible to navigate through it with any sort of open communication. At least, that's been my experience.

Anyone else here run into these "honesty whores"?

-K

posted in Extreme Honesty - 116 replies

Your details on Explode ?

Bloke72 — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 05:42:23 GMT

Rich - sorry for posting off topic - but you also appear in the list I am about to post..

DN & Deia in the Brainstorm Tribe noted their profiles and Deia's noted her friends list is on a site external to tribe. Several members of this tribe are also there.. You may not care.. you may care a lot.. but there is a post in Brainstorm about this.. http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/34fb1a79-351d-4251-8318-829623c1c9cb#4491e342-2eac-4ae7-aeb1-40bb06c281ed which takes you to http://ex.plode.us/friends/381934/ use their search function to see if you're there.. if your're not happy about it - register that either in this thread or preferably in the Brainstorm Tribe here http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/34fb1a79-351d-4251-8318-829623c1c9cb

posted in Extreme Honesty - 41 replies

What do you like about EH?

Fifi — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 17:45:31 GMT

Since we're all spending our time here, it seems kinda safe to assume that most of us like something about this tribe or get something from it (even the people who read but don't participate). I'm curious, what *do* people like about EH?

I like that there are quite a few smart sassy ladies and gentlemen who hang here who are straight up kinda people.

I like that some of the people who post here are wickedly funny (I like wicked and funny), and not above being silly (in a fun way). I get quite a few laughs from this tribe - from laughing with others, at others sometimes and at myself.

I like it that good discussions and debates break out on all kinds of topics, and that there's usually *some* form of discussion going on that's far enough away from what I'm working on that it serves as a diversion.

I like it that most people in EH are generally pretty respectful and kind when someone *does* post here with a genuine life conundrum or emotional issue that's bugging them that they want an honest outside opinion on.

posted in Extreme Honesty - 20 replies

towards complete honesty

Alexyana — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 02:04:56 GMT

For the sincere seekers of complete honesty, i bring the topic of emotional honesty.

To what extent do you think emotional honesty plays/should play in interpersonal communication here in this tribe?

Is emotional honesty a salient concept to you? why? why not?

what's going on with you and emotional honesty?

posted in Extreme Honesty - 23 replies

on sarcasm (part II)

Alexyana — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 03:44:49 GMT

I decided to research the psychology of sarcasm and I thought I pass this along (from psychology today):

http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20070625-000002.html

Some ideas that stood out for me:

"But her research has shown that people who are particularly good at detecting sarcasm also tend to be better at identifying emotional facial expressions. They seem to understand social situations better overall, she says. "

"..why do wisecrackers keep their bons mots coming at the risk of alienating others? Though they may not be aware of it, sarcasm is their means of indirectly expressing aggression toward others and insecurity about themselves. Wrapping their thoughts in a joke shields them from the vulnerability that comes with directly putting one's opinions out there. "Sarcastic people protect themselves by only letting the world see a superficial part of who they are," says Steven Stosny, a Washington, D.C.-based therapist and anger specialist. "They're very into impression management."

"Albert Katz, a cognitive psychologist at the University of Western Ontario, has recently looked at the wisecrackers' focus on one-upsmanship from a biological perspective, showing that people whose brains are best equipped to understand sarcasm tend to have aggressive personalities"

posted in Extreme Honesty - 71 replies

no message

harold — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:35:43 GMT

posted in Extreme Honesty - 16 replies

I posted something in my blog recently that I think some folks here might find amusing...

saddha — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 16:44:46 GMT

http://people.tribe.net/2e235877-7a03-4226-91c1-7dbf4549e9ca/blog/b1a91549-4e00-4150-8c02-857d316a59ee

posted in Extreme Honesty - 3 replies

If you weren't a sinner before you probably are now!

Foxybrown — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:23:19 GMT

The Vatican has updated the list of the seven deadly sins by adding seven more. I remember that at some point we had a discussion in this tribe about the deadly sins.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7287071.stm

According to the first one on the new list we are almost all pretty much going to hell.

posted in Extreme Honesty - 15 replies

Talkin' like a man

Lily — Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:05:37 GMT

With a bow to Quelquechose, who made this comment in Fifi's thread:

when women here communicate in a more direct manner, with less or no backchanneling, it can be perceived as offensive.

I think that's *everywhere,* not unique to this or any other tribe. I suspect that quite a few women on this tribe might have some experience along this line -- and have been accused of "talking like a man" and other such crimes of the mouth -- certainly this has been true for me, until after conducting a careful experiment about 8 years ago, I realized yup -- I apparently think and speak and write like a guy. And women don't like that. They very much do not like that.

So I then read books like the Deborah Tannen ones, listened very carefully to how women I met conveyed info --- and noticed just how much of it goes on behind the scenes, in ultra-deep-background only -- and how very rarely women state any strong opinion in any group or in public. I started changing the way I express myself, because from time to time, I really have something to say, and I don't want to alienate a bunch of women just because of the way I'm naturally inclined to express myself.

One thing I really enjoy about various tribes is getting to talk with women who express themselves absolutely freely, who are intelligent,know it, and don't mind sharing it, and who have great difficulty pretending they are otherwise.

So I'm curious - anyone thought about this? what do you think? what do you feel about it?

posted in Extreme Honesty - 86 replies

Moral Dilemmas

BlingAyez — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 20:09:06 GMT

"You are an inmate in a concentration camp. A sadistic guard is about to hang your son who tried to escape and wants you to pull the chair from underneath him. He says that if you don't he will not only kill your son but some other innocent inmate as well. You don't have any doubt that he means what he says. What should you do?"

http://www.friesian.com/valley/dilemmas.htm

posted in Extreme Honesty - 13 replies

insulting jokes and sarcasm: a tool of dishonesty

Alexyana — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 03:07:05 GMT

To the extent that sarcasm and insulting jokes are underhanded or devious and hard for others to prove..it approaches dishonest (if it is not already).

Insulting jokes offer a sweet innocent cover for less savory feelings that hide behind it. Sarcasm offers an ambigious, vague, and diffusive cover for hostility, hate, anger and such..and are hard to address directly and efficiently.

Because it takes significant energy and time to confront people in their twisted humor and witty sarcasm with no real assurance that one can prove the true feelings and thoughts behind them, I suspect most of these expressions go unchecked; thusly, they become a tool for the passive agressive. So when these expression do get confronted, the joker or sarcastic person may get surpriced and may almost call "foul" because others do not share the humor and may even blame others for acting rude and insulting themselves for such confrontation.

How do you deal/confront people when they make insulting jokes and sarcastic remarks?

posted in Extreme Honesty - 115 replies

Here's What Jesus Would Do

BlingAyez — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 15:29:06 GMT

For a number of years, it’s been common to ask, “What would Jesus do?” Actually, it is an important question and one we would all do well to consider. Of course it is proper to think through these matters, for he is the one we are supposed to be following. But, if he were here in the flesh, where would we be following him?

All this is good and fine, but I’m not entirely sure that some evangelicals would be happy with the answer.

If Jesus were walking our streets . . .

He would be more critical of those who are theologically on target than those who are not.

He would attend celebrations and drinking parties.

He would possibly provide the beer.

He would drink with the rest of us.

He would spent a good chunk of time with those whom the religiously “pure” had no time for.

He would interrupt some of our religious services by making unplanned announcements and controversial statements.

He would tell stories that were relevant and attractive but not always immediately clear.

He would spend a lot more time encouraging others to follow him than he would simply providing religious facts about himself.

He would live courageously yet humbling.

He would serve those who crossed his path.

He would rub shoulders with the outcasts of society.

He would demonstrate that theology is intended to be done in public and on the streets.

He would go places deemed objectionable by the moral standard-bearers of society.

He would make people feel both comfortable and uneasy.

He would violate some of the rules of the religious establishment.

He would desire to heal and not to hurt.

He would be compassionate every day.

He would be challenged (and in some cases hated) by the experts of our day.

He would probably cause a lot of us to wonder if he is truly the one he claimed to be.

He would keep his promises.

He would most likely be criticized by a good percentage of the media.

He would . . .

http://www.theporpoisedivinglife.com/porpoise-diving-life.asp?pageID=440

posted in Extreme Honesty - 24 replies

Members removed

richl — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 06:22:48 GMT

I figure I should mention I've removed Harold and Skooter from the tribe in case people are either trying to communicate with them or have been apprehensive about posting here in this tribe because of either of their presences.

Too many fights, name calling, and nastiness to bother getting into so I made the call based on many complaints that I've been receiving privately.

posted in Extreme Honesty - 223 replies

Speak the truth, then leave immediately after.

Alexyana — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 21:11:12 GMT

I got this meme from a friend:

"Speak the truth, then leave immediately after. "
--Slovenian proverb

posted in Extreme Honesty - 16 replies

International Court of Justice ruled against the US for agression

Alexyana — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 01:09:51 GMT

On June 27, 1986, the International Court of Justice ruled against the Unites States that:

"The United States of America, by certain attacks on Nicaraguan territory in 1983-1984, namely attacks on Puerto Sandino on September 13 and October 14, 1983,
an attack on Corinto on October 10, 1983;
an attack on Potosi Naval Base on January 4 and 5 1984,
an attack on San Juan del Sur on March 7, 1984;
attacks on patrol boats at Puerto Sandino on March 28 and 30 1984;
and an attack on San Juan del Norte on April 9, 1984;
and further by those acts of intervention referred to [above], which involve the use of force, has acted, against the Republic of Nicaragua, in breach of its obligation under customary international law not to use force against another State."

"By laying mines in the internal or territorial waters of the Republic of Nicaragua during the first months of 1984, the United States of America has acted, against the Republic of Nicaragua, in breach of its obligations under customary international law not to use force against another State, not to intervene in its affairs, not to violate its sovereignty and not to interrupt peaceful maritime commerce."

The United States of America was directed to pay reparations for the damage close to 17 billion dollars to Nicaragua.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua_v._United_States)

To this day, the US has not appologized or paid what it ows the Nicaraguans.

posted in Extreme Honesty - 21 replies

This is not the right forum for [this] or [that]

Kryssa — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 07:34:37 GMT

While I haven't personally been admonished in this way I've certainly witnessed it countless times. It's such a strange form of alienation and I just can't quite grasp it. I mean, I am WHO I am ALL of the time. I'll respond to a post here in EH the same way that I'd respond to it anywhere else in this tribe-o-sphere. I don't suddenly change personalities dependent on what tribe I'm in.

Okay, sure...there are certain topics I might not broach here that I'd feel more comfortable discussing elsewhere, but when it comes to responding I'm always just me. No holds barred...and it's not dependent on the forum.

Anyway, I just keep running into this (in an objective sense so far) and it's bugging the crap outta me!

-K

posted in Extreme Honesty - 18 replies

Another inappropriate post

Kryssa — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 09:21:55 GMT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyZYmT8p3Jo&feature=related

I've just fallen so in love with this woman (from a great distance) that I had to share.

-K

posted in Extreme Honesty - 0 replies

How important is sex to you?

lloydg — Sun, 17 Feb 2008 04:16:40 GMT

I always hear people saying they "have to have it". I know a lot of people that, if they are not in a relationship, finding sex seems to take over their life. If they are promiscuous, they go looking for one night stands if they have to. If they aren't, they are completely ingrained in finding their next relationship.

I've gone over six months, to be perfectly honest, and while sex with somebody special is one of my favorite things in the world...I am not too terribly perplexed that I haven't "gotten any" in awhile and probably not in the near future.

When people start talking about their sex lives and "how long it has been" there is some peer pressure there, I have to admit. Our society has placed quite a lot of stock in one's worthiness being linked to whether they are desirable enough to not have to go without sexual pleasure with another person. And it seems to not matter whether love is involved at all.

These conversations always bring up a lot of dishonesty from my experience. Sex, nowadays, is like money. Its a topic that everyone makes a big deal about but seldom are 100% truthful or honest with themselves and especially others. A lot of subtle and unsubtle chest pounding and bragging goes on, or sarcasm and misdirection...in most conversations about sex.

posted in Extreme Honesty - 61 replies

Url in first post was wrong url. Tribe not allowing me to edit my original post to correct it to include intended url, so its include below -

aaronironscmt — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 02:05:47 GMT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkJllCuPYBg&feature=related

posted in Extreme Honesty - 4 replies

atheist, agnostic, or other?

harold — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 15:50:35 GMT

semi-random question - are you atheist, agnostic, or other?

i used to be agnostic (dont know one way or the other about a deity), but as ive gotten older ive finally decided that ive made up my mind and actually do NOT believe there is a deity - hence i self-label as atheist now.

of course if you DO believe in a deity (or several), then youd (according to my classifications above) fall into "other".

are my simplistic distinctions correct? i actually dont know - but i welcome opinions on the subject. my reason for asking is mainly to try and understand the (possibly only temporary) viewpoints of my fellow tribers here in eh.

posted in Extreme Honesty - 78 replies

i see nothing's changed!

kalsang — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 02:57:40 GMT

It must be a year since I've been in EH and I see nothing has changed--still lots of squabbling about people who've left and whether people are being nasty or just truthful.
By the way when I searched for EH the first hits I got were the two for Those Who Have Been Canned, still full of bitterness and recrimination.
How nice to come home and find that everything's the same, the same pots are stewing and the same people are in the kitchen, still bickering away contentedly.
Hi y'all, I missed you.
(My name has changed but it's still me--don't out me publicly please but if you want to know if it's me, then PM me and I'll let you know!)

posted in Extreme Honesty - 12 replies

Crosspost - Coming to Portland

ali-cat — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 21:19:47 GMT

Just a heads up.....l'll be down there Saturday morning through Monday afternoon (the latter may or may not change depending on work). lt's a general visit/Portland birthday celebration for me/welcoming party for a friend of mine returning from Kenya. l know it's short, and short notice, but l know there are a few Portlanders here that l'd love to see/meet, and l'm trying to arrange a get-together for Saturday night. l was going to just put this in the listings, but l know *l* don't check those damn things from tribe to tribe, so wanted to put it here. lf you're interested, hit me up with your number and a suggestion for a place to meet up, and we'll work it out. Hope to see you while l'm there! lf not, l'll be back. l have several Portland buds out of town, so a return trip is required. Hugs n shit. :)

posted in Extreme Honesty - 0 replies

extreme negativity?

Fifi — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 14:37:41 GMT

I only recently even bothered to go check out any of the anti-EH tribes simply because it they've always seemed kind of silly and petty to me (not to mention a bit obsessive and giving rather too much importance to internet drama in general). In my searches I only found one other honesty tribe that didn't define itself by a negative (and where there were actually conversations going on that weren't about this tribe and whinging about why it was bad because it didn't conform to the poster's personal desires). I must say, I find it pretty entertaining that anyone wouldn't realize the inherent and rather obvious irony of complaining about other people's negativity in a tribe that defines itself by a negative. Or just how they're actually simply projecting and disowning their own negativity - neither of which seems particularly honest to me, though it's likely just a lack of self awareness in some cases.

Generally if I don't like something - and this includes in the real world - I do something proactive about it. Whinging about something without taking positive action just seems rather uselessly negative to me - unless one's intention is to paint oneself as a victim. Be the change you want to see, and so on. Which is what the impeccable honesty tribe seems to be - I have a lot of respect for positive action, which is what that tribe seems to be about so non-ass hats off to them for creating it.

Now, I certainly don't find this tribe warm and fuzzy most of the time - though I do find quite a few of the people who post here regularly to be straight forward people who care and think deeply about what they bother to comment on. Or who don't care but are pretty damn funny. I enjoy the rather pithy and/or silly wit of some of the members. If there was nothing here to enjoy I'd just leave - it doesn't seem like a big deal to do so and clearly that's what plenty of people do. The people I think are idiots or being willfully ignorant, I avoid. I don't really care if you're a fluffy bunny if you don't try to continually argue that I should conform and be one too. I accept that sometimes there will be honest conflict in a tribe called EH, it's all the dishonest conflict and intentional game playing that I find weird in a tribe of this nature (things such as "testing" people's compassion, etc). It seems to me that the people who have the most difficulty here are the people who either have a personal agenda that they want affirmed, who mistake indulgence for compassion so consider people "mean" or "negative" when they offer their honest opinion without flattery or indulgence, or the people who want to somehow be the leader here (good luck with this bunch of hooligans!) or usurp Rich's position as moderator.

So, after checking out the anti-EH tribes (and I'm totally excluding impeccable honesty here since they don't seem to be anti-EH, just a kinder, gentler alternative) it seems to me that a lot of the aggro that *does* go on in EH is actually started by people with hidden agendas who belong to the anti-EH tribes and/or got booted and may or may not be someone's second or third identity. Does anyone else find it ironic that so much of the negativity and disharmony in this tribe actually stems from people who are consciously being dishonest and here with the intention of creating the very "negativity" they decry?

posted in Extreme Honesty - 67 replies

"Surrendered people obey God's word, even if it doesn't make sense."

Alexyana — Sat, 23 Feb 2008 20:52:54 GMT

"Surrendered people obey God's word, even if it doesn't make sense." Rick Warren in The Purpose-Driven Life

posted in Extreme Honesty - 57 replies

Obama and Clinton, Race and Sex

Foxybrown — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 01:21:29 GMT

Oh man, this election is going to be an interesting one but I am already sick of it in some ways. I was undecided for a long time. If you asked me a few months ago I would have said that I didn't know but I thought Obama could be ok if he had ten more years experience. Now I feel that I like his youthful exuberance and his message of change. Ten more years might just be what turns him into the same kind of politician I can't stand. The thing that is really bugging me is just how much the race and sex thing keep coming up. I mostly don't even bother to talk to people about it anymore after having had a few conversations where people assumed that I would naturally want to vote for Obama because I want a "Black President." Um..where do I begin with that kind of stupid assumption? First, Obama isn't just black. He is bi-racial and he was raised by his white mother which according to many sociologist would actually make him white (socially that is). Second, while I know my skin is the largest organ on my body it is hardly what I use to make important decisions. Third, I am a woman too. Why wouldn't I be just as inclined to vote with my vagina and chose Hillary so that we can have a "Woman President?"
I mean geesh! The truth of it is that the thing that finally pushed me towards Obama was that the Clintons were just coming off as big manipulators and I don't want them in the White House. Yeah, I think Bill did a good job when he was there but that was then and this is now. He was the man we needed then but that was a different time and Hillary is not Bill. It is actually disturbing to me to hear people going on about race or sex as if it at all should be a deciding factor in choosing who the democratic candidate should be. Shouldn't we be hearing more about foreign policies, trade, the environment and ending the war? Even Obama isn't saying quite enough about any of that for my liking.

posted in Extreme Honesty - 107 replies

Suggestions for a safer society...

saddha — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:11:25 GMT

I looked up some death rate statistics for the US.

2005 data can be found here: http://www.disastercenter.com/cdc/Age%20adjusted%20death%20rates%20for%20113%20selected%20causes%20by%20race%20and%20sex%202005.html

The number one cause of death is cardio-vascular disease with 277 deaths per 100k people per annum. To mitigate this, I propose making obesity illegal. This would probably also help with diabetes at 24.6 deaths per 100k, not to mention drastically reducing overall health care costs to society.

The number two cause of death is cancer at 184 deaths. Not sure how to address cancer as a whole (maybe more research?), but lung cancer is at 53, so I recommend making smoking illegal in order to help mitigate that.

Next in line are various other diseases, renal failure, alzheimers 22.9, stroke, etc. Stroke certainly would go down with lower obesity rates. Potentially other diseases as well. Maybe more research.

Moving further down the list. Motor vehicle accidents at 15.2 deaths per 100k. This could be dramatically reduced by beefing up public transportation and making personal auto ownership illegal. That would definitely help with the environment as well. A less drastic solution would be to ban consumption of alcohol. Many motor vehicle deaths are alcohol-related. Not too mention a fair amount of violent crime, not to mention alcoholism, and liver cirrhosis at 9 deaths per 100k.

Moving further down the list suicide, at 10.5. Mandatory psychological screening and enforced medication for those deemed to require it.

Moving even further down the list, gun homicide is at 4.2 plus accidental firearm discharge at 0.3. Make firearm ownership illegal.

HIV is tied with firearm homicide at 4.2 deaths per 100k. Make extramarital sex illegal to cut down on transmission. Would also cut down on transmission of other STDs.

I think this would be a good start towards making our society safer.

Other suggestions?

posted in Extreme Honesty - 115 replies

expressing thoughts without the associated feeling is dishonest

Alexyana — Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:28:51 GMT

I am noticing alot of postings, including mine, here as in other places express thoughts but leave the feelings unexpressed.. such that much of the meaning is lost.

For example someone may write, "this tribe is bullshit"..

how is one to interpret this? as an expression of joy because they love getting enjoyment of it?

is it frustrations being expressed?
is it anger?
is it sadness?

based on this observation I am beginning to think that thoughts without the feeling behind them are rather dishonest...

how does this make you feel? what do you think about it? and how are you feeling as you write your thoughts?

posted in Extreme Honesty - 69 replies

RELATED TRIBES

Alexyana — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 03:16:31 GMT

I can't think EH has a more related tribes than:
--The Truth about Extreme Honesty
--EXTREME HONESTY TRIBE REFUGEES

Not including them seems to be rather.."incomplete".
I mean. what's with these ones that are so related?:

--Healthy Food for Lazy People
--Fluid Relationships

(I don't know why I am finding this funny.. i sense a bunch of bizzare things going on around here.... i can't, yet, put my finger on it). anyway..

anyone think it's a good idea to include related tribes here and exclude unrelated ones?

posted in Extreme Honesty - 9 replies